Stick Online Forums

It's been along lifetime for SO2 to be here, no doubt, the game is actually pretty fun (with people), but other than that, it lacks A LOT. And I think it's time for a public demonizing of what has been done wrong, what has been done right, and what hasn't been done at all.

Uno
For one, let's examine what was done WRONG. For starters, it probably resided along the lines of a lack of levels, I mean, come on, was it THAT hard to make a gradient textured level, you guys didn't even put in BACKGROUND textures other than buildings every 50 miles.
Second, where did we go askew when creating the artistic design? Why are the Sand monsters tremendously pixelated while the cactus's look anti-aliased?
Third, how did we !@#$ up the SO economy so bad that money was the most utterly useless item in the whole game???
And last but certainly not least, what the !@#$ was with the Intellect stat?

Jenga!
What I certainly loved was the gradient backgrounds, they actually looked kind of nice.
Another thing that made sense was selection of items, the idea that there was a "beefier" type of this weapon, this is a good re-branding idea and, imo, it worked out great.
One thing I did like was the chat system (other than the text limit :[), it looks fine and it wasn't all that bad even in groups. I just wish it had highlighting when someone mentioned your name in chat!

You forgot!
Donation perks, it kind of makes me laugh that you guys went like what, ONE YEAR, without asking for donations, and then instantly, it was gone. Aesthetics would have been nice, the allowance of colored names would also be wonderful, let's listen and learn people :D
Trading!
Skills!
And this one is going to be a long one, I might even make you cry!: It saddens me to this day, that you have given no !@#$ about what the community has done, every !@#$ing week you can stop by the goddamn stick-online.com forums and see 10 threads with community made WEAPONS, HATS, AND SPRITES.
Do I have to spell it out? Nobody gave a SINGLE !@#$ about what the community made, sure they all got a "good job" pat on the back from players, but was anyone other than cero and chaos acknowledged? I mean, we must have had atleast >100 threads with community made hats/weapons/etc.



So what am I asking?
It's time for my thesis-thesis statement!
So I'll just go ahead and be blunt, quit working on SOv3. !@#$ it, what the !@#$ have you honestly learned from this experience Meiun, give me a !@#$ing 5 goddamn page essay on what you will fix the next time around, I guarantee you might be able to fill 3 but it certainly requires more. What have you learned about skills, was there ANY community feedback about what skills were? No, there wasn't because you didn't bother. We have no trading, no skills, no donor perks. What's in it for us the next time around? You certainly messed up a lot, there is no doubt here, but you need to buck up and get criticism once in a while, I'm sorry but it's true. This is a pretty damn good game maker game but you don't match up jack to anything indie-made.
I'm being harsh, I acknowledge that, but it's not always about kind words and frosted cake.

So finally,
!@#$ SOv3, come back to finish what you started, reopen the doors to the SO community so that we can FINALLY have a good giant ass community.
And I guarantee if you had asked for donations earlier, or if you had allowed donator perks earlier, we would have given them to you, because I, for one, !@#$ing love this game, and I only have the best intentions for it, because I've been trolling here for eternity but you mother!@#$ers have a deep down spot in my heart, because honestly, ya'll is dumb.


Let's be honest here, there are indeed !@#$s ups, and I know we all have some pent up tensions about what SO2 has become, and to be honest, if we don't speak up, we don't learn.

    V2 was and is a highly incomplete, made by hobby, and amateur (more of a learning experience than anything else) game. You can only expect so much when there is no real profit involved for anyone, and when the vast majority of it was made/programmed by people who (at the time at least) were mostly highschoolers. But as you said, there are a lot of things that should have been done differently and better. In fact, I'm sure that there are a lot more things that I personally would like to have done differently/better than most of you are probably even aware of. Many of these things are not really possible to do with the current version of things, and would only cause more work and an inferior final product without doing it from the ground up with V3.
   I never claimed that V2 was a professional product, and it certainly wasn't a finished one. Most the things you mentioned (inconsistent graphics, unfinished economy system, lack of skills, INT not being very important, etc.) were all things I was aware of before they were even implemented. My real goal with V2 at the time was to focus on the big ticket parts and learn as much as I could in the process, then polish things off as I went. Clearly I didn't get as far with that as you would have liked, but hey, it was just a hobby and I had zero professional level education on any of the stuff I was doing at the time, so chill. To be honest, a big part of it at the time was just to prove to myself I could design a network efficient online platformer engine, as that sortof stuff interested me a lot at the time; and while I hate to play this card, it's not exactly like any of you are "entitled" to anything out of it seeing as it is (like i said) a free game ran by people who don't even profit off of it.
   Also, I'd really appreciate it if you didn't comment on things that you are basing purely on speculation. Have you had any sortof discussion with me about what I've learned, what I know, or even who I am? Nope, definitely haven't. Pretty sure I could quite easily write a 5 page paper on what you ask, but will I? Hell no, especially not to satisfy the ego of a kid who can't write two sentences without swearing. I've got far more important things to do with my life, and a degree to finish.
   I am not a professional game developer, nor have I ever pretended to be. Most of V2 was programmed between 5 to 7 years ago when I had zero formal education in programming (which is far from the case of where I stand today, at least on the programming front). I didn't go into it expecting to make some epic masterpiece (hell, I didn't go into it expecting anything), I did it for the very same reason that I am making V3... Because I enjoy it.


Oh, and as a side note, it'd probably help people take you a bit more seriously if you didn't fill your posts with profanity and ranting. Kindof obvious... but yeah.

Wow, Uh, Bubba where were you planning on going on this? I mean seriously. Every once and a while there is a small rant complaining about shit. And now THIS. Jesus christ. Stop complaining about shit, Ya'know Meiun is just putting the Donor server up as a thank you to the Donors, and he could take it down any moment and just tell the community to wait for V3. As I see you love Stick-Online so much, I'm sure you would be heartbroken to see that happen. And if everyone keeps on bitching and whining about it, maybe Meiun will end up taking down the Donor server. So I guess all you can do right now, is have fun playing Stick-online v2 as it is, wait for SOV3 to some out.

Quote from: bubba on September 30, 2010, 12:23:58 AM
Uno
For one, let's examine what was done WRONG. For starters, it probably resided along the lines of a lack of levels, I mean, come on, was it THAT hard to make a gradient textured level, you guys didn't even put in BACKGROUND textures other than buildings every 50 miles.

Stick online V1 was BLACK AND WHITE I'm sure most of the players where happy to see any color what so ever in stick online v2.

Quote from: bubba on September 30, 2010, 12:23:58 AMSecond, where did we go askew when creating the artistic design? Why are the Sand monsters tremendously pixelated while the cactus's look anti-aliased?

I'd like to see you do better.
Meiun didn't have a spriter at the time, so he did the easiest and the most productive way to make new sprites. And who gives a shit if its pixely. So is the Big Blue Blob, but that looks kickass to.

Quote from: bubba on September 30, 2010, 12:23:58 AMYou forgot!
Donation perks, it kind of makes me laugh that you guys went like what, ONE YEAR, without asking for donations, and then instantly, it was gone. Aesthetics would have been nice, the allowance of colored names would also be wonderful, let's listen and learn people :D

For one, Meiun never asked for donations because he didn't need them. the donations every player has payed, all went to the server.
And second, your ideas are a complete waste of time to put into the game. Colored names would be annoying 'cause we all know some dumbass is gonna make his name the same color as the background. Oh and nobody is going to listen, nor learn from you.

QuoteTrading!

This has been in debate to go in for a long time now, most of the players just accept it wont make it into Sov2.

QuoteSkills!

Originally Meiun was going to incorporate skills. But never got the time to do so. That is why Meiun stated that Sov2 was never a finished product.

Quote from: bubba on September 30, 2010, 12:23:58 AMAnd this one is going to be a long one, I might even make you cry!: It saddens me to this day, that you have given no !@#$ about what the community has done, every !@#$ing week you can stop by the goddamn stick-online.com forums and see 10 threads with community made WEAPONS, HATS, AND SPRITES.
Do I have to spell it out? Nobody gave a SINGLE !@#$ about what the community made, sure they all got a "good job" pat on the back from players, but was anyone other than cero and chaos acknowledged? I mean, we must have had atleast >100 threads with community made hats/weapons/etc.

I'm 100% positive Meiun cares about his community very deeply. Yeah, so what if he cant check EVERY single topic about sprites that a player has made. At the end of the day, it's always Meiuns decision. What else could you want for making sprites for the game? Meiun cant add every single sprite that a player has drawn up and posted, simply because there aren't enough monsters to go around in SoV2. If he where to add in all the sprites, each monster would be dropping 10 items, and those items wouldn't even have any relation to that monster at all.
Example: Rock beast drops stone hammer
Skeleton drops Skele mask.
Se how the items co-relate with the monsters?

Quote from: bubba on September 30, 2010, 12:23:58 AMSo what am I asking?
We have no trading, no skills, no donor perks. What's in it for us the next time around? You certainly messed up a lot, there is no doubt here, but you need to buck up and get criticism once in a while, I'm sorry but it's true. This is a pretty damn good game maker game but you don't match up jack to anything indie-made.
I'm being harsh, I acknowledge that, but it's not always about kind words and frosted cake.

Stop bitching about everything Stick-Online doesn't have. Whats in it for us? What a stupid question. Meiun owe's us nothing, he has dedicated a lot of his own life into this game, and you have the ignorance to ask whats it it for us? We get to play the !@#$ing game Meiun has been developing for the past 4 years. And nobody has messed up more than you.
So, you pretty much just earned yourself a 1 way ticket to hate from the the rest of the community.

~Looperpuck

He was not so much complaining as he was just expressing what he thought was best for the community, you don't have to go off on a rant over his rant. The first two post pretty much summed up this topic.

Quote from: Looperpuck on September 30, 2010, 04:53:42 AM

Quote from: bubba on September 30, 2010, 12:23:58 AMSo what am I asking?
We have no trading, no skills, no donor perks. What's in it for us the next time around? You certainly messed up a lot, there is no doubt here, but you need to buck up and get criticism once in a while, I'm sorry but it's true. This is a pretty damn good game maker game but you don't match up jack to anything indie-made.
I'm being harsh, I acknowledge that, but it's not always about kind words and frosted cake.

Stop bitching about everything Stick-Online doesn't have. Whats in it for us? What a stupid question. Meiun owe's us nothing, he has dedicated a lot of his own life into this game, and you have the ignorance to ask whats it it for us? We get to play the !@#$ing game Meiun has been developing for the past 4 years. And nobody has messed up more than you.
So, you pretty much just earned yourself a 1 way ticket to hate from the the rest of the community.

~Looperpuck

This was not so much a bitchrant, but more over a critiquing of what I would have wanted in SO2, obviously your opinion differs from mine, and obviously I (thought) some valid points were made, mind you the swearing, but I was bored as !@#$ and a little peeved that to this day I saw nothing different from when I left SO2 the first time a year or so ago. It was a bit aggravating because I felt that I was a part of SO2 simply because I had been an alright fan from back in 2006 and have liked the game forever. This is not a rant that is based off community ideas or other people, this is my own opinion/belief what should've happened to SO2. I respect your opinion but this was not a thread about "you dun goofed meiun", although it certainly seemed so after I look it over, it was more over a "why couldnt you do this?"
Like I said, after 4 years I felt like I was apart of this community and possibly a reasonable person to recommend ideas (i dont recall making more than one though), I liked the way SO2 turned out the years before, but, I expected it to gain more momentum after so long.
I really wanted an answer as to why, and I sort of got one from Meiun, I still have a few questions here and there but hopefully he can answer those via pm, either way, this is over and you can go home thinking you totally owned me, I give no shit, that one way ticket was cashed way back in like 2007 anyway.

As for community graphics, let's be honest. They suck. Terribly. The team's artists can do twice as good in less than the same amount of time. You mentioned that the SF was pixely. The SF is the best animation in game in my opinion. Though the actual frames may seem choppy, it flows like nothing else. When you look at community sprites you see like 2 frame animations.
Something I've had in my mind for a while is, don't bother. If you want to sketch a concept, do so because you can't describe it. But don't do anything expecting it to get in. Heck, if you don't remember Metal Matt you don't have a right to 'critique' this. Chaos gave Metal Matt advice for ages, and Metal Matt made tons of sprites. And guess what, when he did well (the gun-blade), it got in!
Yeah, putting together simple backgrounds isn't much. But the one who did it, Jake, is in college and has much more important things to do. Meiun has more courtesy than to demand work of him, unlike you demanding work from the team. Pretty much the whole work "issue" was more than plenty explained in Meiun's post.
Be grateful that you're even here to consider this. Meiun did this at his expense only, and like he said, he kept with it for over 5 years. Who in SO forums has kept with an idea for a few months, constantly improving? Metal Matt and Ceroblitz are the only ones. That hasn't lasted years.
Finally something worth one of my long responses.
~Aqua

I have to point out, I believe all the artists that have worked on the game came from the community. In addition, consider your point about the SF and Cacti not being consistent with other graphics in the game. That is precisely because they were created by different members of the community. Had a single artist worked on all of the graphics, and no community artists were ever accepted, the graphics definitely would have been more consistant. But that would have been unreasonable. Had more community artists been accepted, the graphics would have been a lot more inconsistant. There had to be some kind of balance.

Considering the fact that everything seems to get in made by the old contributors. The addition of Jakes new ship didn't fit the SO style but it got in. Considering that the styles are already conflicting with each other, I don't see any style consistent with the monster / bg /weapons / hats. So theres really nothing to lose if we add it similar enough style additions to the game made from players.. It would probably be more beneficial because the players might as well get used to it as it stays longer in game, and content usually makes people enjoy the game more.

Hm, well I think I'm going to write up some more specific plans out for SO3, some chat related stuff that I had recommended before but I think I'm going to adapt it more to something I'd like to see, I'll do that later this weekend or next week. As for the sprites, like I said, we should have had community sprites but whatever I guess, the style would be different but tweaking is a solution that does work, take for instance TF2 and their polycount weapons, they fit in pretty well and do take quite a bit of tweaking :)

Good blubba

Quote from: Forum on October 01, 2010, 10:49:17 AM
Good blubba

That typo is pure win.

I would have said something constructive, but everything's already been covered, as far as I'm concerned.

I think we can all be honest here and confirm this guy is an idiot.

Quote from: JoEL on October 01, 2010, 10:53:05 PM
I think we can all be honest here and confirm this guy is an idiot.

lol