http://mashable.com/2011/04/26/playstation-network-remains-down-indefinitely-after-hacker-attack/ (http://mashable.com/2011/04/26/playstation-network-remains-down-indefinitely-after-hacker-attack/)
*sigh* It's times like these when I'm glad I have a PS3 and 360 ;D
I guess you get what you pay for.
Derp.
Quote from: Jake on April 26, 2011, 03:33:40 PM
I guess you get what you pay for.
PSN is becoming a paid service quite soon. lol
This is why I game on my computer. People can't take down the whole internet.
Sony: PSN Information Compromised
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/116/1164186p1.html
QuoteSony said today it believes personal identification information from registered PlayStation Network users has been compromised as a result of an illegal intrusion that has shut down the service for the past week.
This likes to happen alot it seems. Feels like more often now these days.
Quote from: Jake on April 26, 2011, 03:33:40 PM
I guess you get what you pay for.
lol. I find that amusing.
Quote from: Jake on April 26, 2011, 03:33:40 PM
I guess you get what you pay for.
It's a ton more convenient than dealing with RRODs.
Quote from: Torch on April 26, 2011, 05:39:54 PM
Quote from: Jake on April 26, 2011, 03:33:40 PM
I guess you get what you pay for.
It's a ton more convenient than dealing with RRODs.
As opposed to YLODs?
I'm glad the Wii doesn't get either of those. :P
Quote from: Mystery on April 26, 2011, 06:27:06 PM
Quote from: Torch on April 26, 2011, 05:39:54 PM
Quote from: Jake on April 26, 2011, 03:33:40 PM
I guess you get what you pay for.
It's a ton more convenient than dealing with RRODs.
As opposed to YLODs?
I'm glad the Wii doesn't get either of those. :P
Own all three systems. Only ever got a RROD, twice.
Quote from: Mystery on April 26, 2011, 06:27:06 PM
Quote from: Torch on April 26, 2011, 05:39:54 PM
Quote from: Jake on April 26, 2011, 03:33:40 PM
I guess you get what you pay for.
It's a ton more convenient than dealing with RRODs.
As opposed to YLODs?
I'm glad the Wii doesn't get either of those. :P
YLODs only ever happen to people who put their PS3s flat on carpets and leave it on for hours straight. If you know how to handle electronics, you won't ever get one.
Yer all !@#$ed if you have one:
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/04/26/update-on-playstation-network-and-qriocity/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UR2eyb-rgxg&feature=player_embedded
My question is, why didn't they have better protection to begin with, this whole thing could've been prevented.... I realize it is free, (which it should be) but seriously, I paid $400 for the system, it should definitely have a higher level of security then this, it's ridiculous... not to mention how much we pay for games, PS store items, etc..
Quote from: Torch on April 26, 2011, 05:39:54 PM
Quote from: Jake on April 26, 2011, 03:33:40 PM
I guess you get what you pay for.
It's a ton more convenient than dealing with RRODs.
Wasn't talking about the console itself, but it's online service. Xbox Live may cost money, but crap like this doesn't happen either.
Quote from: Torch on April 26, 2011, 05:39:54 PM
Quote from: Jake on April 26, 2011, 03:33:40 PM
I guess you get what you pay for.
It's a ton more convenient than dealing with RRODs.
Yeah but at least the RROD was pretty much guaranteed to happen while it was still under warranty.
Quote from: stick d00d on April 26, 2011, 08:06:36 PM
My question is, why didn't they have better protection to begin with, this whole thing could've been prevented.... I realize it is free, (which it should be) but seriously, I paid $400 for the system, it should definitely have a higher level of security then this, it's ridiculous... not to mention how much we pay for games, PS store items, etc..
Hindsight is always 20/20.
Quite frankly I don't feel sorry for them at all. As a matter of fact, they kind of deserve this out of making a fool out of themselves with George Hotz. I mean hell, Apple knows that iPods get jail broken, they surely lose money over it, but they don't try to ruin somebodys life. And that said, I hate Apple....
While basically all my gaming is done on the PC anyways, I own an Xbox and not a PS3 b/c I foresaw issues with Sony years ago. Everything I have ever bought from them is an unreliable piece of shit, while my Microsoft products have had little to know issues. Sorry to you PS3 owners...but the time has come to ditch what was a shitty company to begin with. :/
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/04/27/qa-1-for-playstation-network-and-qriocity-services/ (http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/04/27/qa-1-for-playstation-network-and-qriocity-services/)
Some pretty important FAQ's answered, would recommend PS3 owners to read 'em if you haven't yet...
Oooooh Sony....will you ever stop getting kicked in the teeth?
Did they know what they were getting into with removing a heavily used feature in a firmware update?
Probably not. Props to Anonymous or whoever did that for showing Sony, that they are doing it wrong.
I agree Cherry.
Heh, my friend today (he has a ps3) said something about it and XBL, so I told him "You get what you pay for. In your case shit-all."
QuoteAdd PlayStation_Network@playstation-email.com to your address book
===================================
PlayStation(R)Network
===================================
Valued PlayStation(R)Network/Qriocity Customer:
We have discovered that between April 17 and April 19, 2011,
certain PlayStation Network and Qriocity service user account
information was compromised in connection with an illegal and
unauthorized intrusion into our network. In response to this
intrusion, we have:
1) Temporarily turned off PlayStation Network and Qriocity services;
2) Engaged an outside, recognized security firm to conduct a full
and complete investigation into what happened; and
3) Quickly taken steps to enhance security and strengthen our
network infrastructure by rebuilding our system to provide you
with greater protection of your personal information.
We greatly appreciate your patience, understanding and goodwill
as we do whatever it takes to resolve these issues as quickly and
efficiently as practicable.
Although we are still investigating the details of this incident,
we believe that an unauthorized person has obtained the following
information that you provided: name, address (city, state, zip), country,
email address, birthdate, PlayStation Network/Qriocity password and login,
and handle/PSN online ID. It is also possible that your profile data,
including purchase history and billing address (city, state, zip),
and your PlayStation Network/Qriocity password security answers may
have been obtained. If you have authorized a sub-account for your
dependent, the same data with respect to your dependent may have
been obtained. While there is no evidence at this time that credit
card data was taken, we cannot rule out the possibility. If you have
provided your credit card data through PlayStation Network or Qriocity,
out of an abundance of caution we are advising you that your credit
card number (excluding security code) and expiration date may have
been obtained.
For your security, we encourage you to be especially aware of email,
telephone and postal mail scams that ask for personal or sensitive
information. Sony will not contact you in any way, including by email,
asking for your credit card number, social security number or other
personally identifiable information. If you are asked for this information,
you can be confident Sony is not the entity asking. When the PlayStation
Network and Qriocity services are fully restored, we strongly recommend that
you log on and change your password. Additionally, if you use your PlayStation
Network or Qriocity user name or password for other unrelated services or
accounts, we strongly recommend that you change them as well.
To protect against possible identity theft or other financial loss, we
encourage you to remain vigilant, to review your account statements and
to monitor your credit reports. We are providing the following information
for those who wish to consider it:
- U.S. residents are entitled under U.S. law to one free credit report annually
from each of the three major credit bureaus. To order your free credit report,
visit www.annualcreditreport.com or call toll-free (877) 322-8228.
- We have also provided names and contact information for the three major U.S.
credit bureaus below. At no charge, U.S. residents can have these credit bureaus
place a "fraud alert" on your file that alerts creditors to take additional steps
to verify your identity prior to granting credit in your name. This service can
make it more difficult for someone to get credit in your name. Note, however,
that because it tells creditors to follow certain procedures to protect you,
it also may delay your ability to obtain credit while the agency verifies your
identity. As soon as one credit bureau confirms your fraud alert, the others
are notified to place fraud alerts on your file. Should you wish to place a
fraud alert, or should you have any questions regarding your credit report,
please contact any one of the agencies listed below:
Experian: 888-397-3742; www.experian.com; P.O. Box 9532, Allen, TX 75013
Equifax: 800-525-6285; www.equifax.com; P.O. Box 740241, Atlanta, GA 30374-0241
TransUnion: 800-680-7289; www.transunion.com; Fraud Victim Assistance Division,
P.O. Box 6790, Fullerton, CA 92834-6790
- You may wish to visit the website of the U.S. Federal Trade Commission at
www.consumer.gov/idtheft or reach the FTC at 1-877-382-4357 or 600 Pennsylvania
Avenue, NW, Washington, DC 20580 for further information about how to protect
yourself from identity theft. Your state Attorney General may also have advice
on preventing identity theft, and you should report instances of known or
suspected identity theft to law enforcement, your State Attorney General,
and the FTC. For North Carolina residents, the Attorney General can be
contacted at 9001 Mail Service Center, Raleigh, NC 27699-9001; telephone
(877) 566-7226; or www.ncdoj.gov. For Maryland residents, the Attorney
General can be contacted at 200 St. Paul Place, 16th Floor, Baltimore, MD 21202;
telephone: (888) 743-0023; or www.oag.state.md.us.
We thank you for your patience as we complete our investigation of this
incident, and we regret any inconvenience. Our teams are working around the
clock on this, and services will be restored as soon as possible. Sony takes
information protection very seriously and will continue to work to ensure that
additional measures are taken to protect personally identifiable information.
Providing quality and secure entertainment services to our customers is
our utmost priority. Please contact us at 1-800-345-7669 should you have any
additional questions.
Sincerely,
Sony Computer Entertainment and Sony Network Entertainment
Quote from: ARTgames on April 28, 2011, 08:16:53 AM
QuoteAdd PlayStation_Network@playstation-email.com to your address book
===================================
PlayStation(R)Network
===================================
Valued PlayStation(R)Network/Qriocity Customer:
We don't know what's happening, all we can assure is, that all your data including your credit card number and billing adress has been obtained by minors. The hackers will be found and eliminated!
Over & Out,
Kevin Butler aka. Big Boss of Sony, yo.
fixed. (at least that is what I am reading between the lines)
Merely speculation at this point, and will continue to be nothing more than speculation
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/04/ars-readers-report-credit-card-fraud-blame-sony.ars
EDIT: Somewhat derailing, I'm well aware, but from a computer science perspective, what dumbfounds me the most is that it took this long to have such a huge batch of security flaws be exposed. The two major ones that come to mind is that obviously there was a hole in their network that allowed the crackers to expose all the user information, but even more so incriminating on behalf of Sony was their lack for generating hashes from the passwords of all 77 million customers. Who on earth still stores passwords in plain text? If there is a flaw in the system that allows outside users to gain information, the only thing worse than exposing plain text passwords is full credit card credentials (including the 3 digit security code which Sony claims they've averted having exposed). I ran this by my co-worker, and we both agreed that we can't think of one reason that you would ever want to store passwords in plain text without using one way encryption. The surprising thing is, even though that is considered security 101, there's still a lot of service providers that do just that, a few of which I could list off the top of my head, some huge, some small. Have you ever clicked on a "forgot your password" link only to have them expose your password to you instead of having you reset it? Every time I see that I cringe and question whether or not I really need that service, despite my habit to use unique passwords for every different service.
Bad Sony, bad bad Sony. Go sit in your room and don't come out until you realize how big of idiots you really are. This year is definitely one they will remember for many years to come.
Quote from: Scotty on April 28, 2011, 10:29:13 AM
Merely speculation at this point, and will continue to be nothing more than speculation
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/04/ars-readers-report-credit-card-fraud-blame-sony.ars
EDIT: Somewhat derailing, I'm well aware, but from a computer science perspective, what dumbfounds me the most is that it took this long to have such a huge batch of security flaws be exposed. The two major ones that come to mind is that obviously there was a hole in their network that allowed the crackers to expose all the user information, but even more so incriminating on behalf of Sony was their lack for generating hashes from the passwords of all 77 million customers. Who on earth still stores passwords in plain text? If there is a flaw in the system that allows outside users to gain information, the only thing worse than exposing plain text passwords is full credit card credentials (including the 3 digit security code which Sony claims they've averted having exposed). I ran this by my co-worker, and we both agreed that we can't think of one reason that you would ever want to store passwords in plain text without using one way encryption. The surprising thing is, even though that is considered security 101, there's still a lot of service providers that do just that, a few of which I could list off the top of my head, some huge, some small. Have you ever clicked on a "forgot your password" link only to have them expose your password to you instead of having you reset it? Every time I see that I cringe and question whether or not I really need that service, despite my habit to use unique passwords for every different service.
Bad Sony, bad bad Sony. Go sit in your room and don't come out until you realize how big of idiots you really are. This year is definitely one they will remember for many years to come.
Haha, my thoughts exactly. I found it rather unbelievable when I found out the password were in plain text. Encryption is so essential nowadays it should simply be a law/standard that must be achieved. Especially when you have retards like Sony with hoards of valuable data. This is nothing short of shameful.
Further discussion of this at the office went to pure comedy gold considering how animated I get when I start doing my imitations. One thing that I imagine happened, and is likely what they mean by "redoing it" is they are probably in the midst of hashing out all 77 Million passwords. They claim they've brought in an external security firm's assistance, and I would have loved to have seen the look on the security folk's faces when they saw that Sony had 77 million plain text passwords.
EDIT: Huzzah! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwn4R_GexLM **Language Warning**
This is entirely speculation, but do any of you suppose that maybe PSN's linkup with Steam could have had anything to do with this?
Wait, am I missing something? Where are you getting this info about them storing plain text passwords as opposed to hashes?
Quote from: LeGuy on April 30, 2011, 01:23:44 AM
This is entirely speculation, but do any of you suppose that maybe PSN's linkup with Steam could have had anything to do with this?
I was curious about what it meant when PSN could link up with steam. I had never heard of that. Thing is, I love steam...and they continue to pump out good security features like the newly implemented steam guard. I am curious though if you could explain it, how exactly was PSN linked with steam? If you bought a game for PS3 can you play it on your computer too?
Quote from: Mr Pwnage on April 30, 2011, 08:10:11 AM
Quote from: LeGuy on April 30, 2011, 01:23:44 AM
This is entirely speculation, but do any of you suppose that maybe PSN's linkup with Steam could have had anything to do with this?
I was curious about what it meant when PSN could link up with steam. I had never heard of that. Thing is, I love steam...and they continue to pump out good security features like the newly implemented steam guard. I am curious though if you could explain it, how exactly was PSN linked with steam? If you bought a game for PS3 can you play it on your computer too?
Pretty much. I know that at least Portal 2 on PS3 could be linked to your steam account, so you got a free PC copy to download as well.
Quote from: YayForLife on April 30, 2011, 08:23:37 AM
Quote from: Mr Pwnage on April 30, 2011, 08:10:11 AM
Quote from: LeGuy on April 30, 2011, 01:23:44 AM
This is entirely speculation, but do any of you suppose that maybe PSN's linkup with Steam could have had anything to do with this?
I was curious about what it meant when PSN could link up with steam. I had never heard of that. Thing is, I love steam...and they continue to pump out good security features like the newly implemented steam guard. I am curious though if you could explain it, how exactly was PSN linked with steam? If you bought a game for PS3 can you play it on your computer too?
Pretty much. I know that at least Portal 2 on PS3 could be linked to your steam account, so you got a free PC copy to download as well.
Portal 2 was actually the first and only game, having that feature.
Quote from: CherryPie on April 30, 2011, 08:58:17 AM
Quote from: YayForLife on April 30, 2011, 08:23:37 AM
Quote from: Mr Pwnage on April 30, 2011, 08:10:11 AM
Quote from: LeGuy on April 30, 2011, 01:23:44 AM
This is entirely speculation, but do any of you suppose that maybe PSN's linkup with Steam could have had anything to do with this?
I was curious about what it meant when PSN could link up with steam. I had never heard of that. Thing is, I love steam...and they continue to pump out good security features like the newly implemented steam guard. I am curious though if you could explain it, how exactly was PSN linked with steam? If you bought a game for PS3 can you play it on your computer too?
Pretty much. I know that at least Portal 2 on PS3 could be linked to your steam account, so you got a free PC copy to download as well.
Portal 2 was actually the first and only game, having that feature.
Yea, as of right now it's just Portal 2, but the feature hasn't been out very long(a few weeks I think). Coincidentally it was only a week later that PSN was hacked...
Quote from: Meiun on April 30, 2011, 02:49:33 AM
Wait, am I missing something? Where are you getting this info about them storing plain text passwords as opposed to hashes?
According to all the articles and the email I received (see http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/04/sony-admits-utter-psn-failure-your-personal-data-has-been-stolen.ars), they've all stated that the passwords and password hints were compromised. Now if they were hashes, at least the passwords, then that wouldn't be such a big deal, likely not even worth noting, so long as they use one way encryption (which would make the whole process of hashing useless if they weren't). In my experience, you would have to hash the passwords as well as the hint's answers (thus making them cAsE-SenSitIve), as they are both equally as dangerous if left un-hashed. If both are using something like md5 checksums for the passwords, chances are there wouldn't be too much concern over the loss of them.
From what other people are telling me, it's still common practice to store passwords in plain text. I have no idea why that is even considered, because it damn well ain't right, but apparently a lot of providers out there still do it.
Does this mean I should be glad I don't have a PS3?
Quote from: RayRay on April 30, 2011, 02:31:16 PM
Does this mean I should be glad I don't have a PS3?
Yes.
You should also be glad if you own one, and used fake info to register. :D
Quote from: Jmacrules on April 30, 2011, 03:26:03 PM
You should also be glad if you own one, and used fake info to register. :D
I live in a weird non existant street in New York :D
Quote from: Scotty on April 30, 2011, 02:11:10 PM
Quote from: Meiun on April 30, 2011, 02:49:33 AM
Wait, am I missing something? Where are you getting this info about them storing plain text passwords as opposed to hashes?
According to all the articles and the email I received (see http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/04/sony-admits-utter-psn-failure-your-personal-data-has-been-stolen.ars), they've all stated that the passwords and password hints were compromised. Now if they were hashes, at least the passwords, then that wouldn't be such a big deal, likely not even worth noting, so long as they use one way encryption (which would make the whole process of hashing useless if they weren't). In my experience, you would have to hash the passwords as well as the hint's answers (thus making them cAsE-SenSitIve), as they are both equally as dangerous if left un-hashed. If both are using something like md5 checksums for the passwords, chances are there wouldn't be too much concern over the loss of them.
From what other people are telling me, it's still common practice to store passwords in plain text. I have no idea why that is even considered, because it damn well ain't right, but apparently a lot of providers out there still do it.
It still seems like you are making a really strong assumption that they were plain text. MD5 and most other forms of hashes can fairly easily be cracked, often through as simple a method as brute force for many of them. Even if you have a relatively strong hash type with a strong password, there are always dictionary attacks, as well as rainbow tables. Sure, it would take ages to crack all of them, but none of them individually are safe, which is more than enough reason in my book to declare them all compromised even if they were hashed.
Quote from: Meiun on April 30, 2011, 07:42:32 PM
Quote from: Scotty on April 30, 2011, 02:11:10 PM
Quote from: Meiun on April 30, 2011, 02:49:33 AM
Wait, am I missing something? Where are you getting this info about them storing plain text passwords as opposed to hashes?
According to all the articles and the email I received (see http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/04/sony-admits-utter-psn-failure-your-personal-data-has-been-stolen.ars), they've all stated that the passwords and password hints were compromised. Now if they were hashes, at least the passwords, then that wouldn't be such a big deal, likely not even worth noting, so long as they use one way encryption (which would make the whole process of hashing useless if they weren't). In my experience, you would have to hash the passwords as well as the hint's answers (thus making them cAsE-SenSitIve), as they are both equally as dangerous if left un-hashed. If both are using something like md5 checksums for the passwords, chances are there wouldn't be too much concern over the loss of them.
From what other people are telling me, it's still common practice to store passwords in plain text. I have no idea why that is even considered, because it damn well ain't right, but apparently a lot of providers out there still do it.
It still seems like you are making a really strong assumption that they were plain text. MD5 and most other forms of hashes can fairly easily be cracked, often through as simple a method as brute force for many of them. Even if you have a relatively strong hash type with a strong password, there are always dictionary attacks, as well as rainbow tables. Sure, it would take ages to crack all of them, but none of them individually are safe, which is more than enough reason in my book to declare them all compromised even if they were hashed.
That's the thing though, so far as I know, MD5 remains "un-cracked". Having an md5 sum is just as effective as not having anything at all. The
only method that I'm aware of to crack them is to brute force them, hence the term "One Way Encryption". I'm sure they might get a couple, but it won't do them any good at all having the hashes. The concern is having the PSN ID's, as now they have half the pieces to the puzzle.
Well md5 and sha1 is not fully compromised but has definitely gotten to the point ware its no longer consider a well secure hash. There are many rainbow tables out there like Meiun said. Not really that big of a deal because its easy to get around them as long as your salting your hashes. Its also recommended to use compute intensive hashes to slow down brute force attacks. There is still a problem that even compute intensive can be gotten by field programmable gate arrays and graphics cards. Best way to over come this is to make it memory intensive but I don't know of any that are.
Quote from: Scotty on May 01, 2011, 12:41:00 PM
Quote from: Meiun on April 30, 2011, 07:42:32 PM
Quote from: Scotty on April 30, 2011, 02:11:10 PM
Quote from: Meiun on April 30, 2011, 02:49:33 AM
Wait, am I missing something? Where are you getting this info about them storing plain text passwords as opposed to hashes?
According to all the articles and the email I received (see http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/04/sony-admits-utter-psn-failure-your-personal-data-has-been-stolen.ars), they've all stated that the passwords and password hints were compromised. Now if they were hashes, at least the passwords, then that wouldn't be such a big deal, likely not even worth noting, so long as they use one way encryption (which would make the whole process of hashing useless if they weren't). In my experience, you would have to hash the passwords as well as the hint's answers (thus making them cAsE-SenSitIve), as they are both equally as dangerous if left un-hashed. If both are using something like md5 checksums for the passwords, chances are there wouldn't be too much concern over the loss of them.
From what other people are telling me, it's still common practice to store passwords in plain text. I have no idea why that is even considered, because it damn well ain't right, but apparently a lot of providers out there still do it.
It still seems like you are making a really strong assumption that they were plain text. MD5 and most other forms of hashes can fairly easily be cracked, often through as simple a method as brute force for many of them. Even if you have a relatively strong hash type with a strong password, there are always dictionary attacks, as well as rainbow tables. Sure, it would take ages to crack all of them, but none of them individually are safe, which is more than enough reason in my book to declare them all compromised even if they were hashed.
That's the thing though, so far as I know, MD5 remains "un-cracked". Having an md5 sum is just as effective as not having anything at all. The only method that I'm aware of to crack them is to brute force them, hence the term "One Way Encryption". I'm sure they might get a couple, but it won't do them any good at all having the hashes. The concern is having the PSN ID's, as now they have half the pieces to the puzzle.
Ah, thats where your mistaken though. Both dictionary attacks and rainbow tables do work (and in the case of rainbow tables, exist) for MD5 hashes as well as most other hash types. Rather unfortunate really in all honesty. But you do have a point in that MD5s are pretty good as long as you have a semi-strong password, and like Art said, there are ways to aid in the protection against them. But even certain operating systems use fairly easily crackable hashes for their password storage, so my only real point is that I wouldn't straight up assume they messed up as bad as having them plain text just because they say they could be compromised (not to say they didn't do a poor job at securing them in some manner though). But anyways, its all really a bit trivial I guess, as this whole situation still sucks either way for PS3 owners.
I bet all this was because some one clicked a link in an email.
Oops. ::)
Edit: Wtf, this posted to the wrong topic when i hit "quote" from a different topic. Eh.
Quote from: Meiun on May 01, 2011, 01:32:04 PM
Quote from: Scotty on May 01, 2011, 12:41:00 PM
Quote from: Meiun on April 30, 2011, 07:42:32 PM
Quote from: Scotty on April 30, 2011, 02:11:10 PM
Quote from: Meiun on April 30, 2011, 02:49:33 AM
Wait, am I missing something? Where are you getting this info about them storing plain text passwords as opposed to hashes?
According to all the articles and the email I received (see http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/04/sony-admits-utter-psn-failure-your-personal-data-has-been-stolen.ars), they've all stated that the passwords and password hints were compromised. Now if they were hashes, at least the passwords, then that wouldn't be such a big deal, likely not even worth noting, so long as they use one way encryption (which would make the whole process of hashing useless if they weren't). In my experience, you would have to hash the passwords as well as the hint's answers (thus making them cAsE-SenSitIve), as they are both equally as dangerous if left un-hashed. If both are using something like md5 checksums for the passwords, chances are there wouldn't be too much concern over the loss of them.
From what other people are telling me, it's still common practice to store passwords in plain text. I have no idea why that is even considered, because it damn well ain't right, but apparently a lot of providers out there still do it.
It still seems like you are making a really strong assumption that they were plain text. MD5 and most other forms of hashes can fairly easily be cracked, often through as simple a method as brute force for many of them. Even if you have a relatively strong hash type with a strong password, there are always dictionary attacks, as well as rainbow tables. Sure, it would take ages to crack all of them, but none of them individually are safe, which is more than enough reason in my book to declare them all compromised even if they were hashed.
That's the thing though, so far as I know, MD5 remains "un-cracked". Having an md5 sum is just as effective as not having anything at all. The only method that I'm aware of to crack them is to brute force them, hence the term "One Way Encryption". I'm sure they might get a couple, but it won't do them any good at all having the hashes. The concern is having the PSN ID's, as now they have half the pieces to the puzzle.
Ah, thats where your mistaken though. Both dictionary attacks and rainbow tables do work (and in the case of rainbow tables, exist) for MD5 hashes as well as most other hash types. Rather unfortunate really in all honesty. But you do have a point in that MD5s are pretty good as long as you have a semi-strong password, and like Art said, there are ways to aid in the protection against them. But even certain operating systems use fairly easily crackable hashes for their password storage, so my only real point is that I wouldn't straight up assume they messed up as bad as having them plain text just because they say they could be compromised (not to say they didn't do a poor job at securing them in some manner though). But anyways, its all really a bit trivial I guess, as this whole situation still sucks either way for PS3 owners.
Ahh. Wasn't aware of "Rainbow Tables". After reading up on them, it would make sense that the less secure (a.k.a shorter) passwords would be more easily compromised, if not through brute force, then something that could consume a lot of disk space (I think doing the math, it comes out to nearly 2 trillion string variations with all the keys on the keyboard at eight character string length). I guess a salt would greatly increase the unlikelihood of cracking them, but I'd guess that if they managed to compromise all the information they did, they were probably also able snatch the salt as well... Yeah, that definitely gave me a different outlook on password security, effin' hell!
Quotebut I'd guess that if they managed to compromise all the information they did, they were probably also able snatch the salt as well...
That is fine just as long as they cant use pre-existing Rainbow Tables. Because then its no different from a normal brute-force attack to make a new Rainbow Table for that salt. Top that with a compute intensive hash it becomes not imposable but much less likely to get anything useful out of the data anytime soon.
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/04/30/press-release-some-playstation-network-and-qriocity-services-to-be-available-this-week/ (http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/04/30/press-release-some-playstation-network-and-qriocity-services-to-be-available-this-week/)
Lots of good news in here, from the press conference. Services should begin coming back on this week.
QuoteThe company will also rollout the PlayStation Network and Qriocity ?Welcome Back? program, to be offered worldwide, which will be tailored to specific markets to provide our consumers with a selection of service options and premium content as an expression of the company?s appreciation for their patience, support and continued loyalty.
Central components of the ?Welcome Back? program will include:
?Each territory will be offering selected PlayStation entertainment content for free download. Specific details of this content will be announced in each region soon.
?All existing PlayStation Network customers will be provided with 30 days free membership in the PlayStation Plus premium service. Current members of PlayStation Plus will receive 30 days free service.
?Music Unlimited powered by Qriocity subscribers (in countries where the service is available) will receive 30 days free service.
Heh, they're trying to be suck up to us now that they've lost our credit card info. They're jerks, but I'll take it... >:(
Quote from: ARTgames on May 01, 2011, 06:52:31 PM
Quotebut I'd guess that if they managed to compromise all the information they did, they were probably also able snatch the salt as well...
That is fine just as long as they cant use pre-existing Rainbow Tables. Because then its no different from a normal brute-force attack to make a new Rainbow Table for that salt. Top that with a compute intensive hash it becomes not imposable but much less likely to get anything useful out of the data anytime soon.
If there is a salt added to the hash, then any pre-existing rainbow table is useless, and they'd have to process all the passwords adding in the salt in, which they'd have to determine not only the salt, but also the pattern at which they incorporate the salt before using any form of encryption (md5, sha-1, etc...). If they can't determine the pattern for how Sony adds in the salt, then they might as well just give up, even more so if the salt is "properly" added in to the password string, and the salt string length is anything more than a couple of characters. I don't care to do the math, but if they had to determine the string length for anything over 20 characters (minimum for a raw binary sha-1 string) up to 40 or more (sha-1's default hexadecimal number length), I can't even begin to image the computing power and disk space required to store all possibilities and time it would take to process out one of the trillions of results (if not more). Even if they could "use" any pre-existing salt tables (be it they have a rainbow table that would enable the addition of a salt string), they wouldn't be able to compute the added salt on top of the pre-existing values without extreme amounts of overhead required to add in the salt. Something that could take a day to compute would quickly turn into a year at that rate with today's technology.
Yes vary true. But looking how Sony does encryption on there PS3 when it got hacked that would never happen. :P
True, if they secure their system with one generic string of characters, I somehow doubt they would bother to get overly complicated with their password storage/encryption.
Sony posted this on their blog today, regarding the passwords:
Quote
One other point to clarify is from this weekend?s press conference. While the passwords that were stored were not ?encrypted,? they were transformed using a cryptographic hash function. There is a difference between these two types of security measures which is why we said the passwords had not been encrypted. But I want to be very clear that the passwords were not stored in our database in cleartext form. For a description of the difference between encryption and hashing, follow this link.
Full article here:
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/05/02/playstation-network-security-update/ (http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/05/02/playstation-network-security-update/)
Well thats a little better. With what has been happing to them I would have believed they would be using clear text. :P But I wonder how well they hashed it?
I stand corrected then. The terms are often used synonymously with each other. Seems like the hashing function probably isn't the concern, but rather that they properly hashed them (e.g. unique salt values for each password, etc...).
BWAHAHAHA!!!
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/05/sony-attacked-again-12700-non-us-cc-numbers-feared-stolen.ars
Wow, PSN is never coming back online at this rate!
Quote from: Scotty on May 02, 2011, 09:05:35 PM
BWAHAHAHA!!!
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/05/sony-attacked-again-12700-non-us-cc-numbers-feared-stolen.ars
Wow, PSN is never coming back online at this rate!
Oi, what a nightmare. Although SOE is totally independent of the Playstation though, so it likely won't impact how soon the PSN comes back (lets hope).
Way to go Sony (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/05/house-hearing-blasts-sonys-half-hearted-half-baked-hack-response.ars), ya bunch of douchecopters. Didn't know your lawyers had their sleeves rolled up while getting dirty in the server rooms, to busy to not attend their hearing. I'd love to hear them complain over how decisions were made without them being present to defend themselves. Oddly enough though, I'm actually rather accepting of their discussions regarding penalties for half ass-security measures. Might encourage people to actually pull their heads out of their rears and realize personal data is not something to be handled light-heartedly.
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/05/04/sonys-response-to-the-u-s-house-of-representatives/ (http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/05/04/sonys-response-to-the-u-s-house-of-representatives/)
Quote
Sony has been the victim of a very carefully planned, very professional, highly sophisticated criminal cyber attack.
We discovered that the intruders had planted a file on one of our Sony Online Entertainment servers named ?Anonymous? with the words ?We are Legion.?
By April 25, forensic teams were able to confirm the scope of the personal data they believed had been taken, and could not rule out whether credit card information had been accessed. On April 26, we notified customers of those facts.
As of today, the major credit card companies have not reported any fraudulent transactions that they believe are the direct result of this cyber attack.
Protecting individuals? personal data is the highestpriority and ensuring that the Internet can be made secure for commerce is also essential. Worldwide, countries and businesses will have to come together to ensure the safety of commerce over the Internet and find ways to combat cybercrime and cyber terrorism.
We are taking a number of steps to prevent future breaches, including enhanced levels of data protection and encryption; enhanced ability to detect software intrusions, unauthorized access and unusual activity patterns; additional firewalls; establishment of a new data center in an undisclosed location with increased security; and the naming of a new Chief Information Security Officer.
And then Sony became a Synonym for untrustworthy.
Please sony, don't ever release another console ever again...
http://kotaku.com/5803050/sony-playstation-network-password-reset-page-exploited-customer-accounts-potentially-compromised
I was being serious:
http://arstechnica.com/security/news/2011/05/sony-hacked-again-used-to-host-phishing-site.ars
Sony Playstation - Check!
Sony Online Entertainment - Check!
Sony Pictures - Check! (http://www.pcworld.com/article/229303/sony_pictures_falls_victim_to_major_data_breach.html)
Seriously, what's left? I'm amazed we haven't seen management resign yet.
EDIT: Forgot - Sony Ericcson - Check!
The "Welcome Back" package is now available. 2 of the 5 games are pretty common among PS users(LBP and inFAMOUS), but I for one only had LBP. The other 3 choices are WipEout HD, a futuristic-racing game, Dead Nation, a dual stick zombie shooter(with co-op) and Stardust HD, a game where you move around a sphere shooting debris.
The 30-day PS+ is a joke because you don't get to keep the freebies you get from it.
The choice of movie rentals is complete crap. Bad Boys, Ghostbusters, and a Final Fantasy movie.
I'm only interested in the games portion to be honest. If you have multiple PSN accounts you can get all 5.
Guess I can't really complain... but they should have at least expanded on the games list.