Why forum etiquette is essential to Stick Online

[Scotty]

I'm posting this as a response to the recent topic which has caused a bit of confusion regarding what not to say on these forums.  I am not posting this with intent to show any influence or power (since I have none) amongst the community, rather, a food for thought topic regarding what the repercussion are for Stick Online when things get posted on these forums, a sort of increasing awareness topic that applies here as well as many other communities.  Take it for what you want, add to it, critique it, it's fine by me.

First off, I will start by saying I am not perfect at exercising what I'm about to preach, as I do tend to utilize quite a bit of sarcasm with intent to confuse, cause awkward moments, and I love watching face-palms and screwing with people.  I like to think that I've gotten better with regards to hostile posts with intent to correct people, as a majority of my questionable posts are inside jokes to others, and not meant to cause unrest (whether or not they do, well that's up in the air).

The key topic I think needs to be brought up is:

Perception.
One thing a lot of people don't realize, is that there are quite a few strangers who may frequent these forums.  They have no idea what Stick Online is, whether they have to donate, where to "download the client" as we've seen all too often, and when they come here, they first want to see what people are saying.  If they go to a topic where there are insults being thrown at others, they are going to have a bad initial impression.  It doesn't matter who it is, since they don't know who's who.  If I go off attacking someone for being "stupid" or "violating forum rules", they are going to be discouraged from participating.  It doesn't matter if the violator is a constant problem, equally antagonistic, or a freshly naive individual who didn't read the stickies.  That's why they call it "First impression."  They read the first topic, and see someone going off on someone else insulting them for not reading the rules, or even worse, doing something that isn't written, isn't all that bad to begin with, yet it urks the antagonizer in a way he'd rather not be rubbed.  Now what do you think this newcomer is going to think when he sees this?  If I were new, I certainly wouldn't think "Yeah!  I wanna get ripped on like this guy, sign me up!" 

Making An Example.
No one likes to be that guy.  It doesn't matter if they deserve it or not, no one wants to be the guy that is humiliated because he screwed up.  When you sit back, you have to think to yourself, do you want to be the guy that is flamed by other members of the community like so-and-so just did (speaking generically here, there's no names to name in this topic).  Sure, I guess I'm getting at the age ol' "Golden Rule" we've all had beaten into our heads since we were a kid, but I'm going to elaborate more than just using it as a catch-all phrase, end of story explanation.  Imagine being the newcomer to Stick Online.  You just want to play the game, in your own negligence and impatience, you read maybe the first or second stickied topic in the first forum, and you go and post the age old topic of "Where do I download the game?"  Because you are one of hundreds who followed before you in an effort to get a quick response, you are being considered the straw that broke the camel's back, and now you just had a nuke of slandering words land in your lap.  How is that going to make you feel when a simple and calm response would have achieved the same goal, and required a lot less anger and frustration.  Did he deserve to be corrected?  Sure, he screwed up, but being aggressive in your corrections with the hope of intimidating him into obedience is not the way to do it.  Want to know why?

Bad News Travels.
Am I the only one that notices that it seems like the only word the spreads is when it's negative?  Seriously, go Google some companies out there today, with how many times they screwed someone over, as opposed to success stories, even companies that would not get where they are today if all they did was screw over customers often will have more bad press than good stories.  Can you see where I'm about to go with this?  People will often only gripe in reviews, with few who would actually go out of their way to compliment.  So now take a joe shmoe that just came here and got flamed for being negligent.  It doesn't matter if he was right or wrong, guess what his negative testimonial is going to read as?  Likely something along the lines of "I did nothing wrong and got attacked, don't go anywhere near this place!"  What happens after that, aside from the obvious drop in potential future community members?  You get the bold one coming here and being proactive towards bringing the fight to Stick Online, defending said douche who was in the wrong, and wrote about how he was "right" and got screwed over.  Now the GMs have to go on defensive mode and try to defend the game's honor, and defend the fact that we have idiots on these forums who type before they think.

That's what I'm getting at here.  Think bigger than you when you type.  Before you sit there an openly attack someone, think about the large scale consequences this community as a whole may suffer because of your actions.  You don't have to sit there and philosophize over every post, more or less just "if you don't have anything good to say, revamp it to be good before you say it."  So when the next guy comes along and makes an idiot of himself, before you go and tarnish Stick Online's good natured reputation, think before you dish out potential damage control for Meiun and his team.

[Meiun]

    Very good points, and all well put. I can safely say I agree with nearly everything you said. We are all lucky enough to have a community in which both myself and any other moderators don't need to be strict in terms of ramming rules and punishment down all of your throats. For the most part people tend to behave relatively well without having to be told. If the popularity were to explode on these forums, how we deal with things likely would have to see some changes (as more people typically leads to more chaos), but for the most part I have been reasonably happy with how things are able to be dealt with thus far. But as with any community, there will always be slip-ups, and this topic definitely helps to guide people in the right direction.
    On a side note, one additional little rule that might be helpful when you are about to post a response that may be considered criticism is: "Is it really a big enough deal that it merits this response?" and "Is this something that would better be handled by a moderator?"

Stickied!

[Torch]

This doesn't take into account that flaming and hatred help weed out people that the community doesn't particularly want on these forums. If someone is so impatient that they can't even be bothered to read a topic before asking for help, do we really want them or their 10-year-old friends posting on this forum board?

[Meiun]

This doesn't take into account that flaming and hatred help weed out people that the community doesn't particularly want on these forums. If someone is so impatient that they can't even be bothered to read a topic before asking for help, do we really want them or their 10-year-old friends posting on this forum board?

I'm sorry, but "flaming and hatred" isn't a good way to deal with much of anything. While there may be close to nobody who is a fan of foolish or ignorant posts (such as ones by the hypothetical 10 year old you mention), I'm pretty sure that most people enjoy reading posts based around "flaming and hatred" far less.

[Lucifer]

This doesn't take into account that flaming and hatred help weed out people that the community doesn't particularly want on these forums. If someone is so impatient that they can't even be bothered to read a topic before asking for help, do we really want them or their 10-year-old friends posting on this forum board?

Weren't we all that young negligent kid at one time or another? I sure was, I remember tons of times where I made silly mistakes when I was new to Stick Online. This is the point Scotty is making, first impressions. I wouldn't be here today if I was constantly treated with sarcasm, and flamed for the silly things new people do. Plus, if everyone were to treat new members with respect, flaming newcomers wouldn't be the new "kool kid" thing to do. For some reason people get it into their heads that the "coming of age" in this community is when you flame your first "weed" as you put it. If instead the weed was treated like an actual human being, which many forget to do..., that weed may turn out to be a beneficial part of the community.

[Snakeman]

This doesn't take into account that flaming and hatred help weed out people that the community doesn't particularly want on these forums. If someone is so impatient that they can't even be bothered to read a topic before asking for help, do we really want them or their 10-year-old friends posting on this forum board?

Weren't we all that young negligent kid at one time or another? I sure was, I remember tons of times where I made silly mistakes when I was new to Stick Online. This is the point Scotty is making, first impressions. I wouldn't be here today if I was constantly treated with sarcasm, and flamed for the silly things new people do. Plus, if everyone were to treat new members with respect, flaming newcomers wouldn't be the new "kool kid" thing to do. For some reason people get it into their heads that the "coming of age" in this community is when you flame your first "weed" as you put it. If instead the weed was treated like an actual human being, which many forget to do..., that weed may turn out to be a beneficial part of the community.

^ This applies so much. There is not one person (Not ONE) that has not looked back on their old posts and thought "Wow, what a little prick I was.". It happens to everyone. Everyone was an annoying little brat back then. It's too common. You'll never come across a 10 year old sporting a monocle and sipping tea, saying "This particular activity has sparked my interest and I would kindly request an admittance into the community of whence this board has generated.". You just won't. Give people a chance. That's something we all need to learn one time in our lives.

[Lingus]

This doesn't take into account that flaming and hatred help weed out people that the community doesn't particularly want on these forums. If someone is so impatient that they can't even be bothered to read a topic before asking for help, do we really want them or their 10-year-old friends posting on this forum board?

Thing is, you don't get to decide who is allowed in the community and who isn't. You may not want those people (as I'm sure a lot of the current community would not, myself included), but more people means more interest. Eventually I'm sure Meiun is going to want to see more people playing his game rather than less. If that means letting some immature and annoying people into the community I'm sure he will deal with it. Like Scotty pointed out, a small group of extremely vocal people could paint whatever picture they want. They could make Stick Online look very undesirable. Which would not be good for the game.

[Scotty]

This doesn't take into account that flaming and hatred help weed out people that the community doesn't particularly want on these forums. If someone is so impatient that they can't even be bothered to read a topic before asking for help, do we really want them or their 10-year-old friends posting on this forum board?

...

That's EXACTLY what I'm getting at here.  You may not want them here.  Even Meiun may not want him here, that is irrelevant to the fact that if they get a wild hair up their rear and decide to go and voice their discontent towards Stick Online over at the GMC, it would explode and be huge considering this game's reputation amongst the community.  All the people that didn't know of Stick Online would have one of the worst introductions to the Stick Online community if someone went and posted "I got screwed over at Stick Online, those guys are a bunch of douchebags!"

Here's a good example of what I'm getting at.  I came to this community about... 3-4 years ago.  When I first came here, Stick Online was still fairly small, but even smaller was NFO.  The way I found out about NFO wasn't through Jake, or Meiun, or any of the GMs talking about the game in a sort of "Check this other game out" fashion, it was when Lingus posted on Stick Online's forums that Jake made him a GM in NFO, and someone went and replied "Good, that community needs all the help they can get with the amount of douche-baggery going on over there."  Or something along those lines.  What was my initial impression?  NFO?  Oh that's not a place I want to go and visit, I don't want to deal with that crap.  Obviously things change, but for the random pass'er-by'er, that's not something that NFO wanted publicized.

[Torch]

These are all valid points, however Lucifer, Meiun, and Snakeman seem to want this forum to be training wheels for forum etiquette. Yes, everyone starts off slow and makes many mistakes before they finally get it right, but there's no reason they have to learn here. There are many popular forums where this type of attitude is enforced and the result is topics with some very interesting discussion. I find this forum board to be very well moderated and to have a large number of intelligent and interesting people, I just have a hard time understanding the notion that people should be able to act like idiots simply because they haven't learned how to post on forums.

In terms of promoting Stick Online, I think the whole reason the original version was so successful is because of its fantastic community, not its accessibility to young children.

[Snakeman]

These are all valid points, however Lucifer, Meiun, and Snakeman seem to want this forum to be training wheels for forum etiquette. Yes, everyone starts off slow and makes many mistakes before they finally get it right, but there's no reason they have to learn here. There are many popular forums where this type of attitude is enforced and the result is topics with some very interesting discussion. I find this forum board to be very well moderated and to have a large number of intelligent and interesting people, I just have a hard time understanding the notion that people should be able to act like idiots simply because they haven't learned how to post on forums.

In terms of promoting Stick Online, I think the whole reason the original version was so successful is BECAUSE of its great community.

See:

Imagine being the newcomer to Stick Online.  You just want to play the game, in your own negligence and impatience, you read maybe the first or second stickied topic in the first forum, and you go and post the age old topic of "Where do I download the game?"  Because you are one of hundreds who followed before you in an effort to get a quick response, you are being considered the straw that broke the camel's back, and now you just had a nuke of slandering words land in your lap.  How is that going to make you feel when a simple and calm response would have achieved the same goal, and required a lot less anger and frustration.  Did he deserve to be corrected?  Sure, he screwed up, but being aggressive in your corrections with the hope of intimidating him into obedience is not the way to do it.

This topic isn't about people who purposefully act like !@#$ing idiots, it's about people who are new to the place and haven't really bothered to read the 6 pagelong stickies that tell what to do. Are you saying that asking simple newbie-like questions are ban-worthy? Let's use our heads here.

[Lingus]

Torch, I think the point is not to allow that kind of behavior, it's how to deal with it correctly. Scott's not saying we should respond by being all, "Yay! You necro'd a topic from 3 years ago. You posted something completely irrelevant to the topic. You double posted 4 times. Well done! We love you now." He's just saying we shouldn't be like, "Oh My Gawd! You are the stupidest person ever!! How could you not know what you did was horrible. You are a baby killer. LEAVE THE FORUM FOREVER!!!!" Rather, the response should be more something along the lines of, "Hi, I know you're new and all, so maybe you weren't aware that you shouldn't have double posted. There is an edit button on this forum and it is better to use that..." Etc. Rather than make the person feel ridiculous, or just continue letting them do what they're doing, you can just inform them nicely that what they are doing is not correct. And if it goes beyond that, let a moderator deal with it.

[Scotty]

What we are getting at with this topic is that it is just as constructive (if not more) to correct users with a level and calm temperament than to rip into someone, which does nothing more than cause ill-feelings and possible further damages in the long run to the greater community and Stick Online name.

Lingus nailed it on the head.

EDIT: Also, to caveat off of Lingus' post, I will say this was the first forum I'd ever visited where double posting was avoided.  I got lit for it, as I just didn't know, and never read anywhere (at the time) where it was considered a "No-No".

[Meiun]

Torch, I think the point is not to allow that kind of behavior, it's how to deal with it correctly. Scott's not saying we should respond by being all, "Yay! You necro'd a topic from 3 years ago. You posted something completely irrelevant to the topic. You double posted 4 times. Well done! We love you now." He's just saying we shouldn't be like, "Oh My Gawd! You are the stupidest person ever!! How could you not know what you did was horrible. You are a baby killer. LEAVE THE FORUM FOREVER!!!!" Rather, the response should be more something along the lines of, "Hi, I know you're new and all, so maybe you weren't aware that you shouldn't have double posted. There is an edit button on this forum and it is better to use that..." Etc. Rather than make the person feel ridiculous, or just continue letting them do what they're doing, you can just inform them nicely that what they are doing is not correct. And if it goes beyond that, let a moderator deal with it.

Bingo.

None of this is that big a deal at this point, so no need to get worked up over all of this. I personally see all of this more as an opportunity to prevent future issues, as well as better the already good community we have.

[Mr Pwnage]

Well I thank Scotty for being polite and leaving out names but I do realize it was my post which sparked all of this. I am referencing:

For !@#$s sake...a forum isn't used like that. If you want some help...make some friends and communicate them by means of a shoutbox, private message, or hell use a 3rd party program like msn for things like this. Never make posts on a forum if all you are asking is for somebody to play with. >.> Or hell, scratch all of what I said and just be patient...people will come on.

Now obviously looking back on it I could have gone about addressing him much kinder than I chose to. I guess it's just part of my personality to mildly attack a person while at the same time providing some advice...obviously that isn't a good method to go about doing things either. Though I do believe my post would have been different if I hadn't had past experiences with the individual starting the thread...anyways I'm off on a tangent here now. Though yes after reading (and even before reading, just this whole thread just lays the matter out well) I would whole-heartedly agree that this is how thing should be handled now regardless of a persons past actions...I suppose that will all be a tongue biting matter.

Also funny because looking back on it I have probably at one point or another been worse than all of the people who now I currently criticize. Ideology surely changes with maturity...and I believe that is what this thread is getting at. Maturity takes time to progress no matter the circumstance so we all must give those who need it time to mature...at least that is partially how I interpreted it. Funny though, the way we are all talking right now I feel that the community could probably concoct a document of equal sophistication to the Constitution. :)

[JninjaJ]

IGN: JninjaJ
LEVEL: 99
PREDICTED LEVEL: 99

FOG FTW LOL