Stick Online PvP League

[Scotty]

Alright, so I know I got some hopes up before when I mentioned that I expressed interest in redoing the Stick Online PvP League, and then I let all ya down when i randomly abandoned the project.  Truth is it came at an awkward time for me with migrating out of the Corps and looking for work, so I think it's somewhat understandable.

So now the thing is, we have a clan system coming around the corner soon, and I can see there being a lot of renewed interest with the game due to it.  I think that's great, and look forward to it just as much as everyone else.  What I think would supplement that greatness even more is if we had a PvP League that we could use to track PvP events.  Obviously, that's where this PvP League comes into play.  I think it would be an invaluable asset to have, and would easily migrate to future versions of the game, as it is completely independent (and unofficial) to the game.  The thing is, I'm a developer, I think about constructs, and coding, I don't do well when it comes to "How should the users report the win/loss" or "How should we organize tournaments", I just let my fingers go to work, and magic happens, so that is why I am posting this topic, as I want to get a collective brainstorming going on, so that I can start to re-develop a white-paper outlining the concepts of how the PvP League would work.  I know we have a lot of invaluable and logical think-tanks in the community (*cough*Lingus*cough*), and I think it would be better to get the entire community involved, so that I can concentrate more on developing, and less on brain-storming.

So without further ado, this is what I'm thinking of thus far, please elaborate, expand, critique, and offer as much advice as you would be willing to part with in order to help me out:

Types of events:

• 1 vs 1 ladder
• 3 vs 3 ladder
• Clan matches
• Tournaments

The site will be authentication based, users specifying their game name(s?).  I'm thinking that since the GM population is so slow, what I'll likely end up doing is either generating their accounts for them, or emailing them, confirming that they signed up for the league before their account is activated.

As far as reporting wins and losses, this is how I see it being done:

All users involved report whether they won or lost in the 1vs1 and 3vs3.  The Clan matches will probably have one rep from each clan that will report, and the tournaments are a whole different beast.  Likely the host of the tourney will report it.  If, for the 1vs1 and 3vs3, there is a conflict in reporting (aka someone's lying), then that is where I need some help on how to handle that sort of situation.

I'll get to tournaments more after we work out the details for the first 3.

DISCUSS!

EDIT:  I MAY BE DOUBLE POSTING AS STUFF COMES TO MIND.  EAT PLATYPUS POO IF THIS ANNOYS YOU.

[foG]

I like it alot. Having a pvp league along with the clan update brings fun into SO again!

As for some ideas.. Well, all you listed is well thought through, right now I can't think of anything I could share.. so I'll post if something good comes to my mind.

[Mr Pwnage]

Sounds great...I'm glad to see everything coming together again.

I think the ladder system you currently have sounds great. An addition might be that you have the ability to choose a location to fight...in case people want non-arena based matches. Also you could throw in Hat/Weapon limitations. Things of that nature. Also, I think if it weren't too much trouble for you...there should be some sort of Teamspeak/Ventrillo for Stick Online and have channels with the various clans all pass worded to the clans desires and have a general lobby...that would be sweet in companion with this new brought up pvp league.

[Lucifer]

First off, I'd like to take a second and say I love you, and would suckle your meat sandwich any day. My only opinion so far would be on Tournaments. It would be beyond awesome to be able to use the website as an all-purpose tool for Tournament hosting. Having the ability to show the tournament information, set up brackets, etc, all on one website, would make organizing a tournament a billion times easier.

As for the 1v1 and 3v3 lying problem, I imagine there should be some kind of discipline. For more than 1v1s, the majority of the votes should be the deciding factor in who wins, but obviously that can't be done for 1v1s, and an entire team could still of course lie. I dunno.

@MrPwnage, There is already a Stick Online Teamspeak up, payed for by Scotty. I like the clan channels and such, that's an interesting idea.

[Scotty]

One thing that came to mind as I was thinking about TeamSpeak, is that I believe (I say this because I haven't yet installed a server on my linux box... yet) that it either has an API or an actual database that I would be able to connect to on the site to give me some wicked cool functionality, like displaying the TeamSpeak chat on the PvP League, show who's online, what channels they're in, etc, I may even be able to have the chat synchronous between the site and TeamSpeak, so that if someone chats on the website, it'll appear to the users on Teamspeak, and vice versa.  Something to look into, although to be honest, that kind of in-depth development will likely come last.

[God-I-Suck]

Sounds great.

I'm quite excited for the returning of the clan system. The Stick Online PvP League is great fun and competition and will bring in more players.

[Scotty]

So as far as punishing inaccurate reporting, this is what I can think of thus far, feel free to critique.  First off, an option will be available to allow for GMs to attend matches to moderate.  All that'll consist of is a check box alongside the match that only mods will see that allows them to check whether or not they'll attend as a moderator, and if so, the two (in a 1vs1 fight) will still submit their wins/losses, but ultimately, the mod's decision will rule all in the event there is a conflict.

If there is no GM available, then this is where it gets sticky.  What I imagine happening is that if there is a conflict in reporting, the match will have up to a 3 day waiting period.  In this time, both members will be emailed and told that there is conflict in reporting.  They will have to go back and re-submit their win or loss.  If there is another error, then rinse repeat for three days.  If at the three day mark, there is still a conflict, then both members will be docked a certain amount of points as a penalty, and have an alert be attached to their account for public viewing when determining future matches.  If a user reaches a certain amount of alerts, they are removed from the PvP League, marked as such.  This will give other users a chance to see who has had faulty reporting, and pretty quickly, those who lie will likely outnumber in negative reports than those who don't.  Plus, it might flag a GM or two to go "investigate" using their "mod powers" to determine in a future fight if someone is lying.

How does that sound?

[God-I-Suck]

Sounds fine to me. But 3 days seems like quite a long time, maybe shortening it?

[Scotty]

Yeah, I was thinking about that, maybe give them 24 hours?  

EDIT: Also, being that I believe in forgiveness of the stupid people (in due time, sometimes), maybe have it filter out all bad marks that are over a certain amount of time old.  So some shmuck learns his lesson, and turns out to be an honest person in the future, won't have bad marks from a year ago carry over?  What would be a good threshold for that?

EDIT 2: Also, in the event one doesn't report (either from the get go or if there's a conflict, and he doesn't re-report), maybe dock that person double points?

[Mr Pwnage]

Well, an issue with that system is if there is conflicting reports that might mean despite one person being filthy...one is being honest. I am not too sure on a solution for such scenarios...but I don't think both of them should be docked points because it is likely that one player is in fact doing it correctly, and shouldn't have to lose points at the sake of another.

[Scotty]

I agree, but as you said, I have no other ideas.  Sure, one user may get dicked because of another's negligence, but those who have a tendency of being dishonest will stand out more.  Plus, GMs will be able to moderate matches while using their GM powers, so if they notice someone is being dishonest, they will have the ability to put a stop to it (i.e. removing them from the league).  If anyone has any other better ideas, please speak up!

I'm also thinking that a select staffing for the PvP league might be in order to help alleviate some of the GMs from feeling overwhelmed with the amount of activity that might occur.  I'm thinking maybe 5 or so users that I know personally who I think would be a good fit for the job would be invaluable.  They would essentially have the same amount of authority with the PvP League as GMs would have, only GMs will also have the added bonus of being GMs in the game.

[Pinball]

Maybe add a comment system to the challenges so people near the match can post who they saw won, which could decide the unreported match?

[Scotty]

Maybe add a comment system to the challenges so people near the match can post who they saw won, which could decide the unreported match?

I thought about user-submitted comments as a sort of work around, but the problem is that, once again, it's not fool proof.  I don't think I would use it as a definitive way to iron out false reports.  Maybe I'll have an option when commenting for users to select who they saw won, and that'll add a sort of sub-rep-points or something, so that when other users see that they may be fighting someone with negative marks on their record, they can also see their rep-points to determine whether or not there is a possibility for false-positives.  Kinda do a sort of ratio calculation to determine the likelihood of whether or not they lied in the report.

Also, when it comes time to kick someone for too many false reports, I'm thinking that this will get submitted for league staff/GM approval, and they will ultimately determine whether or not a user is banned from the league.  What I can do is have a player's name displayed, their wins/losses, points gained, negative marks, rep marks, and a ratio to help determine whether or not a person needs to get the boot.  I don't think I should automate that.  Also, I'm thinking that when a user is removed from the league, maybe instead of banning them, maybe throw in a certain amount of time that they aren't allowed to use the league, like a month or two.

I'm thinking a 60-day retention period for bad marks is sufficient.  I think that after that 60 day mark, their bad marks are retained for reference by the select league staff as well as the GMs if they want to see them, but public display of them is gone.

[Scotty]

UPDATE:

I'm posting these to keep my honest and make sure that the community knows where I'm at, and where I expect to be with tentative deadlines and such.

As of right now, the initial account system is in place.  Registration, logins, updating account information, etc...  What I think will work best is to have a central login account, then allow users to create and update separate game accounts.  I'm affording the opportunity to allow users to specify their account's level.  It will be made clear that this is subject to dishonest reporting (which will be punished with a ban if clear negligence in reporting occurs).

After the game account system is in place, I will move on to 1 vs 1 ladders.  I hope to have something to show for by the end of the week before I take off to West Virginia, just don't hold me to it!

EDIT:  For the game accounts, I would also like to allow for users to submit their inventories so that if there is ever an equipment based competition, I can easily show whether users are qualified or disqualified based on their equipment.  In order to do that, can I ask for assistance with a list of equipment added to the game, split up by hat/weapon?  I am not sure how I am going to do tournament crowns yet, but that'll come to me when I actually start doing this.

[Lucifer]

Tell me if I forgot anything, I'll edit the list. I don't know the exact names of all the crowns and special weapons.

Hats

Red Bandana
Yellow Bandana
Blue Bandana
Green Bandana
Fireman Hat
Shady Hat
Jester Hat
Feather Hat
Ninja Mask
Bandit Mask
Bandit Cover
Bunny Ears
Deranged Bunny Ears
Black Bunny Ears
Viking Helmet
Knight Helmet
Dark Knight Helmet
Skull Mask
Top Hat
Wizard Hat
Pirate Hat
Frog Hat
Froggy Hat
Dragoon Helmet
Fedora
Green Berret

Weapons

Tree Branch
Hatchet
Whip
Dagger
Short Sword
Katana
Scythe
Wooden Hammer
Stone Hammer
Great Sword
Inferno Sword
Spire Dagger

Event Items

Hats

Santa Hat
Easter Egg Hat
Jacko Hat
Punkin Hat

Weapons

Red Candy Cane
Blue Candy Cane
Green Candy Cane
Ghost Lantern

Tournament Items

Hats

Maple's Classic Crown
Disasteroid's Gravity Crown
Ludacris's King Crown
St3k's Ice Crown
Specialboy's Gaia Crown
Dips's Blade Crown

Weapons

Ludacris's Flame Gauntlet
Fog's Legendary Sand Sword