The Green

[DarkTrinity]

A debate popped up in Yankyal's pet peeve topic about weed. Now I don't want this to turn into a stoner's topic talking about how much you smoke in a day or anything. This is more about governmental issues surrounding weed or facts or studies or whatnot.
If it gets too out of hand I'll have a mod close this.

Less marijuana talk, more pet peeves:

Here's an interesting question...  What benefits come from legalizing pot?  There's no conclusive studies (... legitimate... so far as I know) where it is scientifically proven to help, so why introduce a new narcotic to the states?  You can even throw in references to prop 19 if you need to scrape.

That only thing I can think of that benefits from legalizing pot is the government. Because then they could mass produce weed like they do with tobacco. And I imagine it would probably be cheaper for people to buy. But in that case, the current people who grow and sell weed would be out a ton of money. So honestly, I don't see why people want weed to be legalized.
Also, I have no idea what prop 19 is, I saw statuses about it on facebook and apparently it didn't pass? I suppose I can google it. lol.

[Scotty]

Because then they could mass produce weed like they do with tobacco. And I imagine it would probably be cheaper for people to buy.

Negative.
I would expect the government to tax the living erection out of pot.  I would hope they would.  The best part is, all those who claim it ain't addicting are gonna look like idiots when they're spending out the ass to get it anyways.

But in that case, the current people who grow and sell weed would be out a ton of money.

Negative.
The largest culprits of illegally trafficking the ganja in California is far and wide the Mexican drug cartel.  Weed is but a smidgen of their profits, whereas a lot of their hardcore funding comes from more extreme narcotics (heroine, cocaine, etc...).  Losing pot sure as shit ain't gonna stop the drug trafficking problem.

[venuse]

one reason i can think up of legalizing weed is that the government could tax the hell out of it too make money to get themselves out of debt and pot heads could be legal. there are other reason and that is that it can be used for many things ranging from rope, paper, bio fuel, hell even clothing so its not all about smoking it. well atleast different parts of the plant can. frankly i dont see weed as such a big deal as alot of people do, that doesnt mean i support drug use, its just i dont see weed as bad as some make it out to be. infact some prescribed drugs in my opinion are worse then weed. now please know i have never used any illegal drugs and i dont smoke or drink so this has nothing to do with bias just simple opinion. thats my 2 cents

[Meiun]

Let me start by saying that I don't smoke weed, or anything for that matter. Also, I don't typically like hanging out with people who are stoned all the time. But that being said, I still think it would probably be a good call to legalize it. It really isn't even as bad or as dangerous as alcohol, and when you consider the fact that a HUGE portion of the people in jail in the US are in for drug related crimes, it would save a hell of a lot of money to stop paying to jail people for dumb shit like soft-core drugs. I forget the exact number, but it cost a ridiculous amount of money to keep a prisoner in jail each year, and all that money comes from taxes on the rest of us. I don't mind the idea of higher taxes if it is actually benefiting people, but paying for pot-heads/dealers seems kind of ridiculous. Honestly, I don't care all that much either way, but seeing as that is the only real way that this issue effects me, I'd have to go with just legalizing it.

[Scotty]

Again though Venuse, California's economy is utter poo right now.  Taxing pot, while having it remain reasonable, is barely going to dent the economy (regardless of state/economy).  There aren't that many pot heads out there.  Besides, compare the expected revenue of $1.4 Billion dollars to the surprise $400 billion Wall Street is getting as of this afternoon.

I love playing Devil's advocate.

[Aqua]

First off, I don't smoke anything, drink, or socialize with anyone who does. The person who does things like that generally conflicts with me. I don't really have an issue with marijuana, but the question is where will it end? I had some family over recently, and the drug cartel was the main topic, who "make the Al-Qaeda look like child's play." This is something we definitely don't want in our country, and is probably something we'll end up fixing for Mexico anyways. Yeah, weed may be a minor bit of their exports, international now, but if we give them an inch they're likely to take the mile.
~Aqua

[Jake]

Reasons to legalize weed:

-Less minors will be able to obtain it (Many kids say it's easier to get pot than alcohol and cigs. Why? Because dealers don't give a crap how old you are)
-It'll put tons of drug dealers out of business (there's a reason why dealers voted against prop 19).
-The government will stop wasting trillions on kicking in doors and arresting innocent people, and start taxing it (much of that money can go towards drug treatment programs)
-It can be regulated by the government, which means increased enforcement against smoking and driving as well as giving weed to minors.
-Price will go way down on it. Quantity will go way up, and people will have the ability to grow their own.
-No more dangerously laced weed.
-Prohibition does not work anyway. Drug busts have not deterred anything.
-Less money will go to crime rings.
-Hemp will be recognized as a valuable material.
-Marijuana is not a lethal drug, and is much safer than substances like alcohol and tobacco.
-Marijuana has many medical values.

Also, everyone needs to watch The Union naow.

And here's my response to the governments "facts" about the dangers of weed

Long-term marijuana abusers trying to quit report irritability, sleeplessness, decreased appetite, anxiety, and drug craving, all of which make it difficult to quit. These withdrawal symptoms begin within about 1 day following abstinence, peak at 2?3 days, and subside within 1 or 2 weeks following drug cessation.

Of course marijuana has withdrawal effects. So does coffee, alcohol, fast food, and cigarettes, all of which are completely legal. In fact, caffeine has been known to cause around 7,000 deaths per year, which is 7,000 more deaths than what's attributed to marijuana. What's important is the severity of the withdrawal, and there are multitudes of studies that show alcohol is a much more addictive substance with a much more severe withdrawal.
http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/28

High doses of marijuana can produce an acute psychotic reaction; in addition, use of the drug may trigger the onset or relapse of schizophrenia in vulnerable individuals.

A number of studies have shown an association between chronic marijuana use and increased rates of anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation, and schizophrenia. Some of these studies have shown age at first use to be a factor, where early use is a marker of vulnerability to later problems. However, at this time, it is not clear whether marijuana use causes mental problems, exacerbates them, or is used in attempt to self-medicate symptoms already in existence.

Yep, inconclusive results must mean it's not bad for you right?
Albeit with this one, and others, it is hard to gauge effects since many of the rockers of ganj that they studied also consumed various other substances (ie drugs ie cigarettes, alcohol, etc...).

It's funny, with how strongly the government tries to make marijuana out to be an evil, dangerous, and addictive substance, that they would post inconclusive results on their website. The website http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000228 takes a large amount of studies conducted by different universities, and concludes the following: "The psychological effects of cannabinoids, such as anxiety reduction, sedation, and euphoria, can influence their potential therapeutic value.

Those effects are potentially undesirable in some patients and situations and beneficial in others. In addition, psychological effects can complicate the interpretation of other aspects of the drug's effect."

It's not a black and white issue at all. Some studies on the website suggest that it can trigger mood disorders, while other studies conducted suggest that it can help them. Regardless, this begets the fact that alcohol is also the cause of many mood disorders, with apparently no studies suggesting that it can help any of these disorders.

Effects on the heart:

Marijuana increases heart rate by 20?100 percent shortly after smoking; this effect can last up to 3 hours. In one study, it was estimated that marijuana users have a 4.8-fold increase in the risk of heart attack in the first hour after smoking the drug.

This risk may be greater in aging populations or those with cardiac vulnerabilities.

You know what also increases the heart rate to that extent? Exercise. And just like when exercising, it only has the possibility of triggering heart attacks in people who have problems with their heart. Other culprits of this include alcohol and caffeine. Marijuana is also known to lower blood pressure.

Effects on the lungs:

Numerous studies have shown marijuana smoke to contain carcinogens and to be an irritant to the lungs. In fact, marijuana smoke contains 50?70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than does tobacco smoke. Marijuana users usually inhale more deeply and hold their breath longer than tobacco smokers do, which further increase the lungs? exposure to carcinogenic smoke. Marijuana smokers show dysregulated growth of epithelial cells in their lung tissue, which could lead to cancer;8 however, a recent case-controlled study found no positive associations between marijuana use and lung, upper respiratory, or upper digestive tract cancers.9 Thus, the link between marijuana smoking and these cancers remains unsubstantiated at this time.

Nonetheless, marijuana smokers can have many of the same respiratory problems as tobacco smokers, such as daily cough and phlegm production, more frequent acute chest illness, and a heightened risk of lung infections. A study of 450 individuals found that people who smoke marijuana frequently but do not smoke tobacco have more health problems and miss more days of work than nonsmokers.10 Many of the extra sick days among the marijuana smokers in the study were for respiratory illnesses.

I guess no one has ever heard of a vaporizer. It filters all of the smoke, and allows you to suck up pure THC. Using one completely negates the bad side effects of letting smoke enter your lungs. Either way, marijuana does not contain arsenic, carbon monoxide, ammonia, butane, nicotine, and it doesn't increase your blood pressure or cause lung cancer, all of which cigarettes do. Marijuana users also generally do not chain smoke, and it's not physically addictive like tobacco.
http://hubpages.com/hub/Cigarettes-vs-Marijuana
http://patients4medicalmarijuana.wordpress.com/marijuana-info/marijuana-vs-cigarettes/

Oh, and throw out that mamsy pamsy argument about how this is off a .gov website.  Go ahead.  Not like they aren't going to reference their own studies when they determine the legality of it.  That would just make sense wouldn't it?

Hahaha, are you talking about the same government that used monkeys to see if weed killed brain cells by putting a gas mask on their face and pumping in massive amounts of marijuana smoke for 30 days? The determined cause of death was... Wait for it... lack of oxygen. Then, as proof that marijuana killed brain cells, they tested the monkeys after they were dead. That government, right?
http://www.electricemperor.com/eecdrom/HTML/EMP/15/ECH15_03.HTM

First off, I don't smoke anything, drink, or socialize with anyone who does. The person who does things like that generally conflicts with me. I don't really have an issue with marijuana, but the question is where will it end? I had some family over recently, and the drug cartel was the main topic, who "make the Al-Qaeda look like child's play." This is something we definitely don't want in our country, and is probably something we'll end up fixing for Mexico anyways. Yeah, weed may be a minor bit of their exports, international now, but if we give them an inch they're likely to take the mile.
~Aqua

If you don't want the drug cartel around anymore, we should legalize all drugs. I'm actually not joking, I think it's a great idea. Treat addiction as an illness, not a crime, and get people help who need it instead of locking up millions of people. Not only that, but violence over drugs will be completely muted.

There aren't that many pot heads out there.

Wrong sir. Dead wrong.

Because then they could mass produce weed like they do with tobacco. And I imagine it would probably be cheaper for people to buy.

Negative.
I would expect the government to tax the living erection out of pot.  I would hope they would.  The best part is, all those who claim it ain't addicting are gonna look like idiots when they're spending out the ass to get it anyways.

Your wrong on that one too. Right now weed runs at about $300 to 400$ per ounce, because black market suppliers need to be compensated. If it's legal, an ounce of weed could go down to about 40$, and estimations for tax revenues are 50$ per ounce. Still far less than what it's going for now.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/07/proposition-19-marijuana-costs.html

I think someone needs to improve on their devils advocacy skills.

[Scotty]

Dude, you are so ignorant.  You're doing exactly what I see every argumentative liberal do.  You take a very complicated issue, oversimplify it, thus creating ineffective and dangerous oversimplified solutions to a problem that roots so much deeper than you're comprehending.

I can't possibly cover all this in one post, so I'll get as much as I can in the next several minutes:

-Less minors will be able to obtain it (Many kids say it's easier to get pot than alcohol and cigs. Why? Because dealers don't give a crap how old you are)
-It'll put tons of drug dealers out of business (there's a reason why dealers voted against prop 19).

These two sort of go hand in hand.  Kids are still gonna get it, if not more than ever.  Hello, how many people do you know that smoke now started mid-teens?  Wanna know how they did it?  Because people can buy it for them, or they can steal it for free off their parents, or however kids get cigarettes now a days, the same effect will happen with pot.
Guess what, pot ain't that great of a market when you look at all the different narcotics.  Pot is the gateway drug for drug dealers.  I guarantee any kingping would rather rake in the dough off coke and heroine rather than pot.  As soon as pot gets legalized, oh well, now they can concentrate on the heavier hitting drugs.  You eliminate a very small problem for them, and possibly create larger problems, if not just leave it at a stalemate and they continue on as though it was yesterday, only with less or cheaper pot sales.  In no way are dealers gonna be hindered by this.  They'll still sell.  Hell, how many people sell smokes to kids for 10 (of daddy's) bucks a pack?  Think about it.

The government will stop wasting trillions on kicking in doors and arresting innocent people, and start taxing it (much of that money can go towards drug treatment programs)

I won't argue this one, I almost agree with it.

It can be regulated by the government, which means increased enforcement against smoking and driving as well as giving weed to minors.

How is arresting a person who is under the influence illegally any different than arresting a person who is legally under the influence?  If he's falling asleep behind the wheel or being a danger to everyone else on the road, the cops pull him over and charge him appropriately as per however the law stands regardless.  If anything, this door opens the other way and makes it that much easier to facilitate hazardous driving.  Again, with the kids, read above.

Price will go way down on it. Quantity will go way up, and people will have the ability to grow their own.

You're speculating on how it will get legalized, stop it, this proves nothing, this is how you want it to happen, which is definitely not how California was going to make it happen.

No more dangerously laced weed.

Well I'm glad that after prohibition ended in 1933, there hasn't been a single case of someone slipping a mickey in an alcoholic drink ever since... </sarcasm>

Prohibition does not work anyway. Drug busts have not deterred anything.

Well that's a rather bold statement.  Wasn't it you that said that only fools deal in absolutes?  In the grand scheme, no, it may not have, but I sure as hell would say that putting Gonzales behind bars sort of deterred him from further distributing whilst in.

Less money will go to crime rings.

Nickels and dimes.  If you want to see a true case of busting rings by wiping out drug funds, go to the middle east and watch as they crop dust the opium fields.  You seem to have this misconception that pot is bringing in SOOOO much money.  Dude, it's the most common illegal narcotic being used in the states, whereas other more extreme narcotics arent.  Wanna know why?  Heroine is hella more expensive.

Hemp will be recognized as a valuable material.

Apparently you've never been waterboarded with a burlap sack over your head, or any clothing made of burlap, because hemp ain't far off.  What's next, your man thong collection is replaced with the hairs of a horse's mane?  The idea of wearing hemp as an article of clothing is definitely in my top three of favorite BS things I hear in pot arguments.  You can fly your colors, in all your glory in discomfort, I'll laugh at your expense.

Marijuana is not a lethal drug, and is much safer than substances like alcohol and tobacco.

My all time favorite excuse.  Yes, lets introduce another narcotic to the overall depleting health of America, a country where hundreds of thousands dream of day where there aren't substances such as alcohol and cigarettes in this world (some of which are probably reading this, you know who you are, and I truly envy your mindset, truly).  "Oh, but it doesn't do you any harm smoking it."  Yeah... OK... keep referencing your "How to learn ignorance in 24 hours" book.  It's a narcotic.

Marijuana has many medical values.

Do tell.  Let me guess, your response is going to have the word: "Temporary" somewhere, if not multiple times, in it.  Let me tell you about temporary medicinal treatments.  I saw a good man get out of the Corps with nothing more than a drug addiction because they couldn't fix his leg.  They just kept feeding him Vicodin until the day he got out.  Would you want to have to take 500mg of Vitamin-I for the rest of your life to help ease your joint pain, or would you rather a doctor just fix the problem, instead of masking the pain.  I vote for the former.


I can further summarize my entire response for all your retorts towards the governments facts.  You're argument is childish.  You're entire argument is based off of "Well this other thing sucks, and kills, so lets bring in another potentially harmful thing to balance it out, it's only fair!"  Apparently you never listened to your parents when they told you "Two wrongs don't make a right."  Your only leverage in your long and drawn out response is other narcotics.

If you don't want the drug cartel around anymore, we should legalize all drugs. I'm actually not joking, I think it's a great idea. Treat addiction as an illness, not a crime, and get people help who need it instead of locking up millions of people. Not only that, but violence over drugs will be completely muted.

Yes, you are kidding.  This entire retort is synonymous with the term disingenuous.  With this kind of over-reaction, what's next, legalize murder so that the Latino gangs in Oakland, CA can legally kill off the gang problem?  Yeah, that about solves it...

Okay, maybe I did cover most of it in one go...

EDIT: I would like to clarify that even despite the impression of this and previous posts, I am not all against legalizing it.  What I am against is the ignorance of those who would make irrational hasty decisions without being well educated first, which really applies to anything in democracy where you have a choice.

[Jake]

Dude, you are so ignorant.  You're doing exactly what I see every argumentative liberal do.  You take a very complicated issue, oversimplify it, thus creating ineffective and dangerous oversimplified solutions to a problem that roots so much deeper than you're comprehending.

Pointing out my lack of comprehension is a little bit hypocritical, don't you think? Either way, I'm going to attempt to keep name calling out of this debate.

-Less minors will be able to obtain it (Many kids say it's easier to get pot than alcohol and cigs. Why? Because dealers don't give a crap how old you are)
-It'll put tons of drug dealers out of business (there's a reason why dealers voted against prop 19).

These two sort of go hand in hand.  Kids are still gonna get it, if not more than ever.  Hello, how many people do you know that smoke now started mid-teens?  Wanna know how they did it?  Because people can buy it for them, or they can steal it for free off their parents, or however kids get cigarettes now a days, the same effect will happen with pot.
Guess what, pot ain't that great of a market when you look at all the different narcotics.  Pot is the gateway drug for drug dealers.  I guarantee any kingping would rather rake in the dough off coke and heroine rather than pot.  As soon as pot gets legalized, oh well, now they can concentrate on the heavier hitting drugs.  You eliminate a very small problem for them, and possibly create larger problems, if not just leave it at a stalemate and they continue on as though it was yesterday, only with less or cheaper pot sales.  In no way are dealers gonna be hindered by this.  They'll still sell.  Hell, how many people sell smokes to kids for 10 (of daddy's) bucks a pack?  Think about it.

I never said it wouldn't still be easy to obtain pot, because we all know it will be whether it's legal or not. It definitely won't be easier to obtain though, for the same reason that it's not easier to obtain alcohol over pot when you're underage. If I want pot, I simply call up my buddy and buy a 20 sack in under 10 minutes. If I want alcohol, I need to find someone who's 21 or older, and that's not nearly as easy. Drug dealers are full time, random people over the age of 21 aren't. Either way, I'd say this is one of the least important aspects of our debate, because we can both agree that weed is pretty easy to get.

Edit: Chaos was mentioning to me that if weed got legalized, it'd be easier to obtain by minors because it can be grown. I heavily disagree with that statement on the grounds that it would be pretty difficult for minors to grow in their homes (living with their parents and all), and even if it was possible, it wouldn't be a common occurrence.

It can be regulated by the government, which means increased enforcement against smoking and driving as well as giving weed to minors.

How is arresting a person who is under the influence illegally any different than arresting a person who is legally under the influence?  If he's falling asleep behind the wheel or being a danger to everyone else on the road, the cops pull him over and charge him appropriately as per however the law stands regardless.  If anything, this door opens the other way and makes it that much easier to facilitate hazardous driving.  Again, with the kids, read above.

I should have clarified a little better. By "increased enforcement", I meant that cops will form better ways to test people who are under the influence of marijuana. As it stands now, cops have little to no way of proving that you are high unless they take you back to the station and do expensive drug testing, so they try to nail you for possession instead. My buddy just got a DWI, and was high at the time too, but he never even got tested for that. If Marijuana became legalized and regulated, I'm betting they'll come up with more efficient ways to catch you doing it when you're not supposed to. Of course, they might just continue what they've been doing all along, but that'd be hard to believe with all the new funding they have towards catching these people. So I guess we'll have to wait and see. As for my statement regarding giving weed to minors, I stick with it. Prop 19 imposed extremely heavy penalties on someone who even hands a joint to a minor.

Price will go way down on it. Quantity will go way up, and people will have the ability to grow their own.

You're speculating on how it will get legalized, stop it, this proves nothing, this is how you want it to happen, which is definitely not how California was going to make it happen.

How I want it to happen? Bullshit. If Prop 19 had passed, it would be completely legal to grow your own weed in your own house, which means it definitely IS how California was going to make it happen. That is, unless you're seriously trying to argue that the government would tax weed even more than black market suppliers... Uhh yeah, that makes sense. A logical estimation of government tax would be 50$ tacked on for an ounce. That's about a 130% tax. Unless the government decides to tax weed by about 1200%, it will remain cheaper if it's legal. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/07/proposition-19-marijuana-costs.html

No more dangerously laced weed.

Well I'm glad that after prohibition ended in 1933, there hasn't been a single case of someone slipping a mickey in an alcoholic drink ever since... </sarcasm>

Yeah, maybe that happens, but not when you buy it from the liquor store. The only way to buy weed right now is from drug dealers who sometimes like to lace it. Since alcohol is regulated, the places where you buy it have something called regulations. In other words, they're bound by the law, and it's probably in their best interest NOT to sell you alcohol with LSD mixed in. If there are places that legally sell weed, people who smoke it will have peace of mind knowing there's not something in it that can kill them. Understand?

Prohibition does not work anyway. Drug busts have not deterred anything.

Well that's a rather bold statement.  Wasn't it you that said that only fools deal in absolutes?  In the grand scheme, no, it may not have, but I sure as hell would say that putting Gonzales behind bars sort of deterred him from further distributing whilst in.

I actually never said "only fools deal in absolutes". You must be thinking of Albert Einstein. Let me refrain from saying anything once more, and quote the words of a well known narcotics agent "When I arrested a rapist or robber, the community was safer. When I arrested a drug dealer, all I did was create a job opening."
http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2010/10/former_narcotics_agent_its_time_to_call_off_the_wa.php

Less money will go to crime rings.

Nickels and dimes.  If you want to see a true case of busting rings by wiping out drug funds, go to the middle east and watch as they crop dust the opium fields.  You seem to have this misconception that pot is bringing in SOOOO much money.  Dude, it's the most common illegal narcotic being used in the states, whereas other more extreme narcotics arent.  Wanna know why?  Heroine is hella more expensive.

Weed is extremely common because the demand for it is so high. A drug dealer with a small growing operation in his house can make $120,000 a year. Imagine what a legit operation could rake in. It may not rival some other drugs in terms of profit, but calling it nickels and dimes is laughably understating it's worth.

Hemp will be recognized as a valuable material.

Apparently you've never been waterboarded with a burlap sack over your head, or any clothing made of burlap, because hemp ain't far off.  What's next, your man thong collection is replaced with the hairs of a horse's mane?  The idea of wearing hemp as an article of clothing is definitely in my top three of favorite BS things I hear in pot arguments.  You can fly your colors, in all your glory in discomfort, I'll laugh at your expense.

Hemp can be used for the production of building material, composite materials, paper, jewelry, fabric, cordage, water and soil purification, weed control (not marijuana), and fuel.

Marijuana is not a lethal drug, and is much safer than substances like alcohol and tobacco.

My all time favorite excuse.  Yes, lets introduce another narcotic to the overall depleting health of America, a country where hundreds of thousands dream of day where there aren't substances such as alcohol and cigarettes in this world (some of which are probably reading this, you know who you are, and I truly envy your mindset, truly).  "Oh, but it doesn't do you any harm smoking it."  Yeah... OK... keep referencing your "How to learn ignorance in 24 hours" book.  It's a narcotic.

This is, in my opinion, the ultimate fallacy used by people against pot. Weed isn't something that will just now be "introduced" to the public if it's legalized. It's something that has been a huge part of our society for the past 30 years, and will continue to be apart of it whether it's legal or not. Recreational pot smokers simply want the peace of mind that they won't go to prison for doing something they love to do, and which hurts no one. If we made alcohol illegal right now, and started throwing everyone in jail who got caught drinking, how many problems do you think it would cause rather than solve? If marijuana became legal, we could spend some of the tax dollars we make on it to fund drug treatment programs, which could help benefit America's health.

Marijuana has many medical values.

Do tell.  Let me guess, your response is going to have the word: "Temporary" somewhere, if not multiple times, in it.  Let me tell you about temporary medicinal treatments.  I saw a good man get out of the Corps with nothing more than a drug addiction because they couldn't fix his leg.  They just kept feeding him Vicodin until the day he got out.  Would you want to have to take 500mg of Vitamin-I for the rest of your life to help ease your joint pain, or would you rather a doctor just fix the problem, instead of masking the pain.  I vote for the former.

So, what if doctors can't fix it? Then what? My teacher had a serious problem with his eyes called glaucoma. The only thing they found that relieved the pressure and intense pain was marijuana. Is that not using it for a medical value? This 2:14 minute clip about a man with multiple sclerosis says it all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEOoa6Q4Bds

I can further summarize my entire response for all your retorts towards the governments facts.  You're argument is childish.  You're entire argument is based off of "Well this other thing sucks, and kills, so lets bring in another potentially harmful thing to balance it out, it's only fair!"  Apparently you never listened to your parents when they told you "Two wrongs don't make a right."  Your only leverage in your long and drawn out response is other narcotics.

Again, your going on the logical fallacy that we're bringing anything in that hasn't already been here for a long time. My argument has nothing to with bringing in another harmful thing simply because there are more harmful things already out there, despite your obvious misunderstanding. My whole point is that our governments efforts to stop people from using weed is futile, and these futile attempts to silence the voice of society are wasting my money and they're wasting your money. Weed makes people happy, it provides medical benefits to thousands, and it's here to stay whether it's legal or not. The government needs to get it's head out of it's ass, and start benefiting from it, as well as let people benefit from it.

If you don't want the drug cartel around anymore, we should legalize all drugs. I'm actually not joking, I think it's a great idea. Treat addiction as an illness, not a crime, and get people help who need it instead of locking up millions of people. Not only that, but violence over drugs will be completely muted.

Yes, you are kidding.  This entire retort is synonymous with the term disingenuous.  With this kind of over-reaction, what's next, legalize murder so that the Latino gangs in Oakland, CA can legally kill off the gang problem?  Yeah, that about solves it...

Legalizing murder and legalizing drugs are two different things. I'm of the opinion that the government should not and can not tell me what to do with my own body, but I can tell you love being whippppped.

Wow, haven't debated anything in a while. And careful who you call ignorant. After reading your replies, I can tell you've done far less research than you'd like us to believe.

[T-Rok]

Please note I haven't actually read anything you guys have said xD

I myself don't smoke it, and I can not hang out with those that do due to the fact that I feel nauseated when I can smell even the slightest hint of it. I don't know about you americans, but I know up here in British Columbia, Canada, illegal marijuana accounts for 8 Billion dollars a year of our provinces economy. On top of that, unlike what I've heard about america (where you get sent to jail for even having pot), here in Canada you get a slap on the wrist and any pot caught on you is taken. So really, while it is illegal, due to the fact it accounts for a large part of our provinces economy, they cannot get rid of it. But I doubt it will be legalized anytime soon because illegal things always cost more than legal things. Think about back in 1920 when the Prohibition stopped the sale of Alcohol and how much the price of beer sky rocketed.

edit: Forgot about this, but another reason they don't want to make it legal is due to the fact America has threatened to close its borders to BC if it was made legal.

edit 2: Also forgot to mention my mother is a drug and alcohol counselor, and in that business they call marijuana the "gateway" drug. It is addicting, and its effects do wear off when used often just like any other drug. Essentially, you will eventually become immune and have to increase dosage. Some eventually not only increase dosage but switch to harder drugs. So yeah.. just so more information for your arguments.

[Torch]

I fully support the legalization of weed, provided they regulate it with an age limit and a license to sell.

I smoke a lot of weed, more than your average Canadian high-schooler (which is considerably more than your average American high-schooler) so I am quite bias in this debate, however I can still see the benefits for those who do not smoke it. People who want to buy weed are able to buy weed whether or not it is legal, the only difference is that when it is purchased illegally, a crime has occurred and the profit is not taxed.

Essentially, legalization would only reduce crime rates and increase government tax income. Weed is not a physically addictive drug, your body never gains a dependence on THC and there are no withdrawal symptoms. In fact, by comparison to alcohol, weed is quite healthy.

Benefits I can think of for weed users are better quality weed (more competition amongst growers for a better product), lower price (even with a massive tax on it, it will still probably be cheaper than buying it through a chain of like 5 dealers), and not having to worry about dealing with the police.

[Jake]

edit 2: Also forgot to mention my mother is a drug and alcohol counselor, and in that business they call marijuana the "gateway" drug. It is addicting, and its effects do wear off when used often just like any other drug. Essentially, you will eventually become immune and have to increase dosage. Some eventually not only increase dosage but switch to harder drugs. So yeah.. just so more information for your arguments.

Everything is a gateway to something, but that doesn't mean we make it all illegal. Masturbation is harmless, yet it's a gateway to rape, milk is good for you, but it's a gateway to alcohol, etc. Besides, I have never ever seen a pot smoker that said "wow, I'm just not getting high like I used to, lets move on to cocaine". They're completely content with where they're at.

And, as long as you don't smoke marijuana too often, the effects of it actually increase. When I first started smoking, I would barely get high. three years later, I take just one hit from a joint and I'm extremely high for up to 4 hours. Of course, your tolerance can still go up after you smoke it for a long time, but absolutely no one becomes "immune" to it. Luckily, it's easy to lower your tolerance simply by not smoking every day.

[DarkTrinity]

Please note I haven't actually read anything you guys have said xD

I myself don't smoke it, and I can not hang out with those that do due to the fact that I feel nauseated when I can smell even the slightest hint of it. I don't know about you americans, but I know up here in British Columbia, Canada, illegal marijuana accounts for 8 Billion dollars a year of our provinces economy. On top of that, unlike what I've heard about america (where you get sent to jail for even having pot), here in Canada you get a slap on the wrist and any pot caught on you is taken. So really, while it is illegal, due to the fact it accounts for a large part of our provinces economy, they cannot get rid of it. But I doubt it will be legalized anytime soon because illegal things always cost more than legal things. Think about back in 1920 when the Prohibition stopped the sale of Alcohol and how much the price of beer sky rocketed.

edit: Forgot about this, but another reason they don't want to make it legal is due to the fact America has threatened to close its borders to BC if it was made legal.

edit 2: Also forgot to mention my mother is a drug and alcohol counselor, and in that business they call marijuana the "gateway" drug. It is addicting, and its effects do wear off when used often just like any other drug. Essentially, you will eventually become immune and have to increase dosage. Some eventually not only increase dosage but switch to harder drugs. So yeah.. just so more information for your arguments.

Idk what Americans you're talking about, but it's the exact same thing here. If you have marijuana on you, they just take what you have and if you have a bowl on you, they'll smash it. Unless you are caught with a substantial amount(hinting you might possibly be dealing it), then they will take you in. But I'm pretty sure it has to be a certain weight for them to bring you in.

Marijuana has many medical values.

Do tell.  Let me guess, your response is going to have the word: "Temporary" somewhere, if not multiple times, in it.  Let me tell you about temporary medicinal treatments.  I saw a good man get out of the Corps with nothing more than a drug addiction because they couldn't fix his leg.  They just kept feeding him Vicodin until the day he got out.  Would you want to have to take 500mg of Vitamin-I for the rest of your life to help ease your joint pain, or would you rather a doctor just fix the problem, instead of masking the pain.  I vote for the former.

Ok, what about things that aren't fixable? You really have no choice then. Like terminal illnesses such as cancer. You can go through tons of treatments and still not get rid of it and either way you'll be in pain. Sooo, you have no choice but to be on pain killers until you die.

[T-Rok]

/snip

Idk what Americans you're talking about, but it's the exact same thing here. If you have marijuana on you, they just take what you have and if you have a bowl on you, they'll smash it. Unless you are caught with a substantial amount(hinting you might possibly be dealing it), then they will take you in. But I'm pretty sure it has to be a certain weight for them to bring you in.

Oh.. I was talking to some Americans and they were talking about how up here in Canada we have it so easy. I must figure out which state they live in. lol

[ARTgames]

Do you(you as in anyone here) think people should be sent to jail for having any amount of it?