Spire.

[Seifer]

The spires range is about half that of a slasher in truth. It's very very hard to accurately  hit someone at the very end of your hitbox with slasher, usually it's near the end, but your never going to fully utilize it's length. Anyone with 10+ agi will close that gap and hit you 2-3 times before you get away.

[Freeforall]

I have not used the Spire Dagger, as I do not have one. But this is what I think:

If you work hard to get a weapon, I think you should get a good weapon, not a nerf gun.
I like it the way it is. In my opinion, it is balanced. It's fast and strong, but drains stamina.
And it does not have long range. If you have this weapon, you must have INT, or you are
going to stam in seconds. I think it is actually pretty balanced.

Also, keep in mind that this game isn't actually in development anymore, and just be thankful
that this weapon was even added in the first place.

My biggest complaint would be the slasher. Although insanely rare, it has more range than a whip, pretty
great damage, and it is pretty dang fast.

[CherryPie]

Just to clear things completely with the BC thing, I did the math for you guys.

Points needed to emulate the effect of..

DKH: 4vit, 7def(= 21vit) = 25vit = 25
DH: 3str, 2agi, 2vit, 5def(=15vit) = 22
BC: ~14agi(speedwise), 4def(=12vit) = 26

(I didn't include the aspect of jump bonuses, because they aren't really useful in pvp.)

Conclusion:
1.) Tweak DH (either +1def or 3 in agi or str to make it able to participate with dkh)
2.) Slightly decrease BC (everyones argueing because of the speed aspect so lower the speed by a lot and slightly give an str bonus or something similiar)

How I would handle it:
DKH (can stay): 4vit,7def

DH (updated): 3str, 2agi, 2vit, 6def /
4str, 4agi, 2vit, 5def

BC (updated): 4str, 9agi(speedwise), 4def /
3str, 9agi(speedwise), 4int 3def

I'd like to hear your opinions :)

[Mystery]

Just to clear things completely with the BC thing, I did the math for you guys.

Points needed to emulate the effect of..

DKH: 4vit, 7def(= 21vit) = 25vit = 25
DH: 3str, 2agi, 2vit, 5def(=15vit) = 22
BC: ~17agi(speedwise), 4def(=12vit) = 29

(I didn't include the aspect of jump bonuses, because they aren't really useful in pvp.)

Conclusion:
1.) Tweak DH (either +1def or 3 in agi or str to make it able to participate with dkh)
2.) Slightly decrease BC (everyones argueing because of the speed aspect so lower the speed by a lot and slightly give an str bonus or something similiar)

How I would handle it:
DKH (can stay): 4vit,7def

DH (updated): 3str, 2agi, 2vit, 6def /
4str, 4agi, 2vit, 5def

BC (updated): 4str, 9agi(speedwise), 4def /
3str, 9agi(speedwise), 4int 3def

I'd like to hear your opinions :)

See, that's the thing. AGI's only needed effect in PVP is speed, without jump it's arguably better. VIT, on the other hand, while Defense is a major part, HP and HP regen can be even bigger, so you can't put it on a pedestal with speed. Defense may take 3 VIT to increase by 1, but it's lesser when paired with max HP and regeneration. So Defense < Speed when comparing. I count it as a single point.

Also, Dragoon Helmet and Dark Knight Helm are great enough as is, I don't think they need a boost.

Regarding the new BC, that would crush whatever tiny use the Fedora had left. I'd just like a speed nerf from 17 AGI speed boost to 12/13 AGI or so.

What I'd REALLY like is a Fedora update, from +2 STR, +1 VIT, +4 INT, +2 Def, to +4 STR, +4 INT, +4 Def. That'd be a +12 stat boost, on par with DH and DKH as far as boosts go. (Because I used 1 stat point for Fedora regen, 8 INT would be fail if it was changed, and I'm not getting a single stat point reset if it was to be changed.  :'()

EDIT: Stat boost comparison:

Bandit Cover- 17 AGI speed boost equivalent + 4 Defense = 21 point stat boost
Dragoon Helm- 3 STR + 2 AGI + 2 VIT + 5 Defense = 12 point stat boost
Dark Knight Helm- 4 VIT + 7 Defense = 11 point stat boost

[Celson]

I think DKH and DH are fine the way they are. Saying DKH is better than DH is an incorrect statement. It all depends on your stats. If you got high vitality like fog, then the DKH won't be as useful as the DH could be (due to the fact that DH gives str bonus, and that strength can really help). And my only problem with BC is that it is a bit to fast.

Also you can't really count 1 def = 3 vit. It doesn't work that way. Cause vit also gives the hp bonus.

[Mystery]

So...it turns out due to some testing done by me, T-Rok, and Ceroblitz, Spire gives a hidden +3 AGI speed equiv boost. This is why people previously though BC gave +17 speed boost, Spire was equipped. Aqua and Lucifer also said it gave a small speed boost, we just pinpointed it. So it's got a similar boost to Slasher.

[T-Rok]

Confirming what he said. At first we thought it was +4, but through further tests it was found to be +3. So with Spire+BC equipped I end up with 30 agi speed compared to my normal 13.

[CherryPie]

wow I never realized that on crappy. Makes sense that spire makes you faster, though. (more than that huge slasher weapon, which should actually make you smaller but anyway..:p)
Okay so 17 agi boost? Every new player knowing that will NEVER EVER have to raise the agi stat again. I mean srsly, most are happy with 10 agi, but now you can have 18 without putting points into it, lol.

[T-Rok]

The reason people raise agility though is for the jump in order to reach new places. This only gives you speed. So technically, you could create an epic win PVP build based purely off of spire and BC.

[CherryPie]

The reason people raise agility though is for the jump in order to reach new places...

correct me if im wrong but you can go everywhere with frog hat and 1 agi, especially if you equip spire.

[Ceroblitz]

Ya cant reach top of the ship, and other places without switching hats.

[T-Rok]

The reason people raise agility though is for the jump in order to reach new places...

correct me if im wrong but you can go everywhere with frog hat and 1 agi, especially if you equip spire.

I don't have a frog hat. I'm unlucky enough to have never had one drop D:

[crozier]

The reason people raise agility though is for the jump in order to reach new places...

correct me if im wrong but you can go everywhere with frog hat and 1 agi, especially if you equip spire.

I don't have a frog hat. I'm unlucky enough to have never had one drop D:

I was level 100 when I got my first frog hat drop man.

[CherryPie]

Ya cant reach top of the ship, and other places without switching hats.

That's the point. You still "can" reach everything.
And with the server not being in official development anylonger, PVE has become way less important.
Aaaannnd..who needs jump bonus in pvp again? :P

[Ceroblitz]

I said and, You CANT reach the top of the ship with 1-4 agi.
you need 5, I think, with frog hat.