Spire.

[Mystery]

Don't forget DKH also gives the equivalent of a massive stat boost. I get +9 def from wearing it. Imagine how much more VIT I would have needed to add to get that much def. If anything, I feel there should also be a hat that gives such a massive advantage to STR. We already have one for AGI and one for Defense, where is the uber-str hat?

(-.-) has it, except that it's not uber at all.

Bandit Cover gives a +21 stat boost equivalent to AGI and Defense.
Dark Knight Helm gives a +11 stat boost equivalent to VIT and Defense, but the Defense boost is so massive(21 VIT would be needed to get the same amount of Defense). It also obsoleted Gaia Crown.
Blade Crown...adds 7 STR?

:-X

[Meiun]

After discussing and thinking about it a bit more, I am pretty sure I will be nerfing the Bandit Cover a bit in the next update, just so you are all aware. I still intend for it to be a really great hat, but it was never meant to totally "eliminate" the need for AGI, nor was it meant to do so while simultaneously serving as a top notch defensive hat. I don't plan on totally changing it's purpose or features, just may need to adjust how strongly it does what it does.

[Tyco-RC]

Nice.

My only good hat will be down graded, thanks guys......

[Mystery]

Nice.

My only overpowered hat will be down graded for great justice, thanks guys......

Fixed.

EDIT: Also, thanks Meiun.  :)

[Tyco-RC]

Whatever.. pure envy, nothing more......

If you had it your view would be different....

End of my input since this topic has been sorted.

[Aqua]

Envy? As you said in-game, the people complaining didn't have it.
I have it, and it's overpowered. It really devalues agi atm.
~Aqua

[Turkey]

foG, I'm sure you have handled yourself fine against spires. I have never seen you have a problem with them since they were first released. But it looked to me that you may have a weakness to slashers much more than spires.

[Forum]

I think spire is fast and could be nerfed as i always lose to spire users although i havn't tried any "jumping" strategys.

But Bandit Cover only gives 15 agility... and with the 1 stat point you already start with 16.. i could see it being reduced to maybe 12/13 and the defense i didn't real care much for as i there is already better defence hats but 4 defence probably could be 3 defence.

[RayRay]

Yep. Looks like we'll just keep balancing things until everyone likes everything of it. Sorry Tyco.

[Mr Pwnage]

The whole BA update really just aggravated me, both with the OP hat and the glitchy weapon. Glad finally some light is being shed upon it. Also, this is not simply because I get my ass-kicked by people who use spire...fact is my builds suck because they are basically just a decent amount of agi with some other variation between the 2 I own. Don't think FoG is just complaining about it cause he is slow, I am actually pretty fast and I find that I take hits from this dagger when I am a good 10 feet away from it on my screen, and the game doesn't appear to be lagging at all. That can only mean the hit boxes are very broken or something....but it definitely frustrates the living shit out of me to take damage from a stub when I am not even within whipping range of that person. Not to mention regarding the BC...I feel no faster than 1 agi people as long as they wear it...something about the hat just makes people so incredibly fast it completely kills the need to even bother with agi. With all do respect, as of current I have the game renamed "Spire Daggers Online" in my steam directory...it's been like that for a couple months.

I really hope some of it is fixed sometime in the near future...that'll be the day.

[Meiun]

as of current I have the game renamed "Spire Daggers Online" in my steam directory]as of current I have the game renamed "Spire Daggers Online" in my steam directory

Jeeze, talk about dramatic ::) The hitbox situation you talk about definitely just sounds like either you or your opponent having super shitty ping. If you simply have a high ping, but one that doesn't fluctuate then you don't exactly jump around and can appear to be moving smoothly, but it just results in things appearing a bit behind for the person.

Either way, I do plan on doing some balancing in the next update on things. But I think some of you may be a bit mislead by simply how bad things are with the Spire. I may be wrong, but it is my understanding that even when fog with a GS vs someone with a spire (forget exactly who, but someone high level and a fairly good pvp build I believe) stood hitting each other as fast as they could without moving, fog was still able to win? To me, that doesn't make the spire sound very over powered at all. Standing still and hitting is about the worst strat you can have with the GS, and the best strat with the Spire, as well as the the fact that the GS is suppose to be worse over all to begin with. Sure the reason why may be due to stamming out, but the high stam cost is intentional with the spire and one of the reasons it is not quite as OP as some of you may believe. Again, i'm not even saying it doesn't need some adjusting, just that I think a few of you might be getting a bit too carried away o_O


Anyways, I understand why a lot of you would be upset with some of this stuff (particularly the BC), and hope to help make it better as soon as I am able to.

[Celson]

If there's going to be any nerfing done on the spire dagger, then here's my opinion. Reducing the base damage or increasing the stam usage of the spire would be pointless, it would just make the spire dagger more stamina costly than it already was. And I can also confirm that the spire dagger is a hard weapon to use pvp wise. I jumped on Lucifer's account and he jumped on mine and we had a pvp. My celson account has 34 vit. And in my first ever pvp on Lucifer's account using spire, I actually stammed.. Of course with enough practice I would eventually get better aim and more skilled with the weapon (much like Lucifer himself) and would be effective with it, but the fact still remains that it is easy to miss. So as I mentioned earlier. Making the spire dagger more stamina costly is not such a good idea.

What I believe to be the main problem with the spire dagger is it's intense speed. If I'm using a gs and fighting Lucifer. With my 6 + 2 agi he can hit me 2-4 times per GS hit. Two spire dagger hits alone is already enough to compete with my 1 gs hit. Alright so obviously the GS isn't a very good weapon to counter spire. So what is...

Spire Dagger
Slasher
LSS (I've seen fog do it before. He can do 1 LSS hit for there 1 spire hit. And LSS is very strong so it counts)
Stone Hammer (Not to sure, I don't personally have one so I don't know how good it is. But I imagine it would be somewhat similar to the effect of LSS)

So basically weapons that are fast or weapons that have an accurate attack with knock back. The only problem is that all these weapons are rare. So to beat the spire, you gotta be lucky enough to get rare items. I perceive this to be somewhat of a problem.

Anyway. It is of my opinion that the Spire Daggers reload time should be increased. Perhaps to the same reload speed as katana (the spire would still theoretically be faster due to it's quick animation, and the katana reload speed is also pretty quick anyway so it's not to bad). This could somewhat persuade spire dagger players to increase there agility so they can get a quicker reload time and the extra agility speed would help a lot with the new reload time. So in this way they can't just rely on there BC for there speed. They will actually need some decent agility to make proper use of it.

I may not have said what I had said in the way I wanted to say it properly. But I've done the best I can.

[Lucifer]

I've actually got no problem with balancing the Spire Dagger. Might sound surprising, as I've been a strong supporter of its drastic effect on PvP, and its progress towards making intelligence useful. But my opinion as one of the longest users of the Spire Dagger, and a tournament winner using only this weapon, is it's too powerful. This opinion is born in my belief that SO went in the wrong direction with making the most PvP viable weapons the rarest. As I fight equipped accounts like Fog, Razor, Gufi, Igumal, and DeamonClawz, I see no imbalance. With each of these battles I'm forced to use all of my skill, if I don't I loose, and even if I do, I loose more often than not. However, when I fight accounts that lack any of the best weapons, like Mystery, The God, or Celson, the imbalance is obvious, I do not have to try as hard as I should.

I don't like this leap to rare items, and ever since the new PvP system and its transition to 1v1 fights, that has always been my complaint to the game. This is why I argued for the return of the PvP system, the game was not completely built for 1v1 fights, and some people seem to have forgotten this. I wish every single person in SOV2 had all of the best items, then PvP would always be exciting! This complaint about lacking rare items would be nonexistent, it would purely come down to your skill with each item. Each battle would be reduced to the gritty details of PvP skill and strategy, where I find my true enjoyment of Stick Online.

In terms of what to do with the Spire Dagger, I would agree with Celson, heck the ridiculous cooldown actually makes me miss more than I should. I wouldn't mind it being increased.

@Pwnage
I'm sorry, but that's how it is for everybody. Just to touch on what Meiun said, the average SO player ping is 150-200. Although this ping is not high enough to cause the teleporation effect, your actual location on the other player's screen is a bit behind where you are. I've noticed this has the largest effect when running away in a straight line, and jumping to avoid hits. What I do to avoid this lag problem is avoid running in straight lines, and jump a half second sooner than need be. It can't ever be completely avoidable, that's just how it is, SOV3's server will fix this. This effect has nothing to do with the "hitbox" junk people have complained about with both Slasher and Spire Dagger.

[T-Rok]

I've actually got no problem with balancing the Spire Dagger. Might sound surprising, as I've been a strong supporter of its drastic effect on PvP, and its progress towards making intelligence useful. But my opinion as one of the longest users of the Spire Dagger, and a tournament winner using only this weapon, is it's too powerful. This opinion is born in my belief that SO went in the wrong direction with making the most PvP viable weapons the rarest. As I fight equipped accounts like Fog, Razor, Gufi, Igumal, and DeamonClawz, I see no imbalance. With each of these battles I'm forced to use all of my skill, if I don't I loose, and even if I do, I loose more often than not. However, when I fight accounts that lack any of the best weapons, like Mystery, The God, or Celson, the imbalance is obvious, I do not have to try as hard as I should.

I don't like this leap to rare items, and ever since the new PvP system and its transition to 1v1 fights, that has always been my complaint to the game. This is why I argued for the return of the PvP system, the game was not completely built for 1v1 fights, and some people seem to have forgotten this. I wish every single person in SOV2 had all of the best items, then PvP would always be exciting! This complaint about lacking rare items would be nonexistent, it would purely come down to your skill with each item. Each battle would be reduced to the gritty details of PvP skill and strategy, where I find my true enjoyment of Stick Online.

In terms of what to do with the Spire Dagger, I would agree with Celson, heck the ridiculous cooldown actually makes me miss more than I should. I wouldn't mind it being increased.

@Pwnage
I'm sorry, but that's how it is for everybody. Just to touch on what Meiun said, the average SO player ping is 150-200. Although this ping is not high enough to cause the teleporation effect, your actual location on the other player's screen is a bit behind where you are. I've noticed this has the largest effect when running away in a straight line, and jumping to avoid hits. What I do to avoid this lag problem is avoid running in straight lines, and jump a half second sooner than need be. It can't ever be completely avoidable, that's just how it is, SOV3's server will fix this. This effect has nothing to do with the "hitbox" junk people have complained about with both Slasher and Spire Dagger.

While I enjoy the no cooldown of the weapon allowing me to stam almost instantly. I'm being serious, I enjoy it as it allows me to play for mere split seconds at a time while doing other things such as program. It perfectly fits into my play style. I do think it may need a cooldown increase. I'm not sure about the katanas, but in between what it currently is and the katana seems about right.

[Chaos]

Make Slasher more common.

Problem solved?