Global Drop Rate Increase

[T-Rok]

When you hit 1337 posts it changes to "leet". Its happened 3 other times that I can remember.

[ARTgames]

Fine. 10 hours. I don't care. The point is, I've spent hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of hours looking for one item, and I'm !@#$ing sick of it. No one should be subject to this crap. I don't play to grind, I play to enjoy myself. I'd love to be able to obtain the items I want, so I could prowl the games land and go where I please, do as I wish, but no, I'm a slave to the Dark Bandits. No one wants that. We all want to be able to play as we please.

calm down man. fine! talk it over with meiun.

Or instead of Seifer using up yet another favor from Meiun, Meiun could increase the drop rate so Seifer finally legitimately gets Spire Dagger through his own means, not a request, and so others have an even bigger chance to do the same.

Lol I never said for him to ask Meiun for a favor to give him a spire. You made that up.

All I said was talk to him. And I never said it but I meant talk to him about increase the drop rate. I thought that was obvious but its clear now.

[Mystery]

Fine. 10 hours. I don't care. The point is, I've spent hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of hours looking for one item, and I'm !@#$ing sick of it. No one should be subject to this crap. I don't play to grind, I play to enjoy myself. I'd love to be able to obtain the items I want, so I could prowl the games land and go where I please, do as I wish, but no, I'm a slave to the Dark Bandits. No one wants that. We all want to be able to play as we please.

calm down man. fine! talk it over with meiun.

Or instead of Seifer using up yet another favor from Meiun, Meiun could increase the drop rate so Seifer finally legitimately gets Spire Dagger through his own means, not a request, and so others have an even bigger chance to do the same.

Lol I never said for him to ask Meiun for a favor to give him a spire. You made that up.

All I said was talk to him. And I never said it but I meant talk to him about increase the drop rate. I thought that was obvious but its clear now.

Sorry, thought that's what you meant.

I'm perfectly content knowing something will be done about it.

[Cactuscat222]

Unfortunately, the lasting appeal of the game is the grindfest part...

Everyone loves to get items. That's the entire point - but when they become too available, their value diminishes. Now I can't speak for everyone, as everyone favors different things. If you are an avid PvPer, and literally spend most of your time playing to PvP, then maybe this change isn't bad, everyone will be more balanced. However, when it comes down to it... people will get bored once they have used their IS or Spire or whatever after a certain amount of time. The thing that keeps people coming back is that "Ooooh, this DS/SG might be the one to drop this item I really want!". And sadly, that is how it is in most online games, that is how you get attached.

For that reason, I'm undecided. I'd feel like it'd be a "god mode" thing: Fun for a little while, then you just drop the game. And a game like this needs as many people as it can playing for the best fun (at least for me).

[Seifer]

Danimal saw me suggestion of two hours and laughed at me, but felt more complacent with 10 hours. Meiun has not been on as of late, but when the chance arises we will have yet another talk. Remember though, he is without a laptop as of late, and until he gets it back from Asus, there isn't much he can do on SO. In either case, we as a team on SO do feel that SOMETHING needs to be done about drops, so fret not. Whether it is things being put in store, increased mob/boss spawns, increased drop rates, nerfing of rare items so that things are more balanced, increased drop rates or a combination of things, something will be done.

Yes, thank you.  :D The only thing I'm worried about now is the shop suggestion, that the items might just be a tadddd too expensive for some people to ever get them.

Yes, that has ALWAYS been my issue with it as well. Danimal and I have argued about it back and forth a thousand times. He feels that a couple million would be fine. That even resetting gold and THAN a couple million is fine. I feel that people will get all gung ho, than go out and realise that in a couple hours they have 50k. Than they will say "!@#$ this" and not bother at all, effectivly changing nothing. If we don't reset the gold, well, than many of us who have never given two shits about gold will feel cheated as those that collected for some arbitrary reason are rewarded. I think that we should shoot for a much lower cost, but he feels it will be "too easy". So, who knows. It's a tough call I suppose.

Of course the ultimate question to go along with this discussion is what will happen when people find themselves more easily aquiring the items they seek? What will happen when players feel they do not need to go out and seek items? This is the balance we must strike. We must fear the worst, that should people be able to get an item they want, in even say, 10 hours, after they get that stuff, they rarely play, and SO once again becomes barren.

Then make it so it'd be relatively simple to get a single rare drop you want, but not all of them. I myself care only about a select few items, and I'm sure most people do. (It varies from person to person.) In addition to that,, several people love to socialize, PVP, make new accounts, or just goof around in SO, it's not always a grindfest. And there's occasionally newcomers, and with all the recent activity, I don't feel that SO will become barren anytime soon. Besides, the donor server wasn't always intended to be active:

How would we program it to make it easy to get "one" item. Either the items drop rates are increased, or they are not.

[Chaos]

A semi-expensive potion that increases one's drop rates for a period of time after consumption?

EDIT:  Or make it a semi-rare drop from some Christmas Presents.  How's THAT for a gift?  And make them non-stackable to prevent mass-hoardings, especially since people are generally inclined to pack rat.  Thoughts?

[Seifer]

EDIT:  Or make it a semi-rare drop from some Christmas Presents.  How's THAT for a gift?  And make them non-stackable to prevent mass-hoardings, especially since people are generally inclined to pack rat.  Thoughts?

So your plan to fix the drop rate it to add a semi-rare item? Sounds counter-intuitive. In either case, from a programing standpoint, I feel this would be a nuisance.

[Chaos]

EDIT:  Or make it a semi-rare drop from some Christmas Presents.  How's THAT for a gift?  And make them non-stackable to prevent mass-hoardings, especially since people are generally inclined to pack rat.  Thoughts?

So your plan to fix the drop rate it to add a semi-rare item? Sounds counter-intuitive. In either case, from a programing standpoint, I feel this would be a nuisance.

I knew you would comment on that part, and considering that I stated they'd be dropped by STANDARD presents, yes.  Considering presents aren't exactly a difficult foe to kill, if you made them common, people would be able to find quite a LOT of them, and once they used one, they could find MORE even EASIER.

You wanted to know how you'd make it easier to find one item, and that would be by increasing one's drop rate for a limited period of time.  Mind you, when I'm talking about, for a 'period of time', I had in mind something along the lines of an hour.  And that's in ADDITION to adding it as a purchasable item, so it's not a short-term solution as long as the holiday event is going on.  Maybe something along the lines of 25k-50k?

The idea being that you're not ruining the anticipation, work, and effort required to get the item, but also giving the player an opportunity to increase their drop chances with in-game money, instead of giving it to them straight off for an extremely or not so extremely expensive cost.  As much as people want to get what they're looking for as soon as possible, there is a certain sense of satisfaction and accomplishment gained when there is a challenge present, as some people have commented.  With an item that increases the drop rate, you can still make the work easier, without removing the challenge.  I understand you're sick of looking for the spire, but I imagine even you can agree with that sentiment, or I would think you'd have long since asked Meiun to just give you one.

[CherryPie]

Of course the ultimate question to go along with this discussion is what will happen when people find themselves more easily aquiring the items they seek? What will happen when players feel they do not need to go out and seek items? This is the balance we must strike. We must fear the worst, that should people be able to get an item they want, in even say, 10 hours, after they get that stuff, they rarely play, and SO once again becomes barren.

Then make it so it'd be relatively simple to get a single rare drop you want, but not all of them. I myself care only about a select few items, and I'm sure most people do. (It varies from person to person.) In addition to that,, several people love to socialize, PVP, make new accounts, or just goof around in SO, it's not always a grindfest. And there's occasionally newcomers, and with all the recent activity, I don't feel that SO will become barren anytime soon. Besides, the donor server wasn't always intended to be active:

How would we program it to make it easy to get "one" item. Either the items drop rates are increased, or they are not.

[/quote]
It's possible, but alot does have to be changed for something like that.
Every player would need a multiplier value, starting at 1, after his inventory fills up, for every "triple a" item included in it the multiplier value would keep dropping.

for example
BC drop rate: 2%(assumed)
Player without items in inventory -> chance is 2%*1 = 2%
player with dkh in inventory -> chance is 2%*0,85 = 1,7%
player with dkh and IS -> chance is 2% * 0,8 = 1,6%
playerwith dkh, IS and dh -> chance is 2% * 0,785 = 1,57%
...and so on

that system would only work if trading wont be implemented in SOv2. (which probably won't happen anyway)

edit: also further on, players could decide what drops they want to get and in which order.

[Danimal]

So... do you think Meiun agrees/will agree?

I don't know and won't know if/until he posts here. Danimal tells me he's firmly against it(both him and Meiun), but I'm not completely sure about the specific matters in this topic.

I only said that Meiun was against items becoming easily generic for a player. As in, everyone shouldn't all have the same items, or get the same items, easily anyway.

Believe me, I know exactly how it feels to be frustrated with the drop system when you compare youself to others. Obviously not lately but I have grinded for items such as DKH or BBE, and both took me MONTHS to get. I saw lower levels, and people not even trying get them, and it made me feel extremely annoyed. A lot of S.O is luck of the draw, that's how it is. It differs from other games where every player can just buy what they want or w/e. It is true that a lot of the attraction to playing S.O is the mission to get the items you desire.. The active players are the ones WITHOUT the items they want, I strongly disagree that investing '10 hours' into grinding, should get you a powerful item. I did intially suggest to resolve this issue, having 'necessary' PvP items in the shop (Spire, Slasher, DKH, BC) for values such as 1million gold. This was in conjunction with the fact that everyone's piled up gold be reset. This was so everyone could be on a level playing field (imagine it like a new type of gold, one that's actually worth something) and to avoid a sudden mass buying of these items. However Meiun did see potential problems with removing everyone's gold, as it is something some people value and take pride over. In addition with this, he wasn't fond of the idea where every rare and powerful weapon is available to everyone. Following this, I suggested that just a slasher for example, be sold in the shop for an extended amount of gold (2million ish) HOWEVER, players keep their current stock piled gold. I have worked out that at level 100, players have averagely around 900k - 1million (not all players! I'm aware some have extremely less...) I liked this idea because it is a guaranteed reward for dedicated players. Slasher is a great weapon in PvP and gives a 'unlucky' player a bigger chance in competing with luckier/more skilled players.

A typical response to this idea is that 2million is way too much, and 'People wouldn't grind for that'. This is not how to get a slasher, this is not making players get 2million gold (which I understand is about the work equivalent from 0-100 x 2) in order to get this weapon. Slasher drops from Dux and SG as always. This would just be an additional option for long-time players who feel heavily disadvantaged in a tournament or something.

In addition, I have had conversations with Meiun about the drop rates particularly the IS (ironically enough the day before I got an IS drop) and he acknowledged the fact that the drop rates were based on the public server, and that they could be tweaked slightly. My main concerns to him were the slasher and the IS (being stupidly rare) and he said he will probably increase their drop rates in the next update.

I personally do not feel that there is much of a problem with other drop rates. There are plenty BC drops (which Meiun thinks might need lowering) and spire is a very rare and powerful weapon. Arguably the best in the game, it drops every couple of weeks ago averagely.. Multiple players have duplicates of the spire. Increasing its drop rate would be stupid IMO. In addition, DKH has been dropped 3-4 times in the last 2 weeks, that's not bad. DH is common enough.. Why is a global drop rate increase necessary, when clearly the only weapon you guys are annoyed about is Spire. Which is SUPPOSED to be rare. Someone got it just yesterday. Just because you may see yourself as particularly unlucky with it doesn't mean it NEEDS to be increased.

Oh yeah, and also! This is a donor server! This is a dead version of the game, no longer being developed. The issues are ones Meiun knows full well about! Anything like this is just another reason why V3 is being made. Something doesn't NEED to be done it is not something that we haven't known about for years.

This is just me putting my opinion out there, I don't claim to know Meiun's exact thoughts on the matter, nor do I treat how I feel as fact I am more than willing to be persuaded otherwise.

[foG]

Well now this seems like a good idea to me.

Putting Slasher into the store for alot of money, which every active player will reach some day and increasing IS' drop rate.

I totally agree that stuff like DKH and spire do not have to be raised as I also share the opinion that SO would not be as active as of right now if everyone got the weapons they desire.

[Mystery]

Following this, I suggested that just a slasher for example, be sold in the shop for an extended amount of gold (2million ish) HOWEVER, players keep their current stock piled gold. I have worked out that at level 100, players have averagely around 900k - 1million (not all players! I'm aware some have extremely less...) I liked this idea because it is a guaranteed reward for dedicated players. Slasher is a great weapon in PvP and gives a 'unlucky' player a bigger chance in competing with luckier/more skilled players.

A typical response to this idea is that 2million is way too much, and 'People wouldn't grind for that'. This is not how to get a slasher, this is not making players get 2million gold (which I understand is about the work equivalent from 0-100 x 2) in order to get this weapon. Slasher drops from Dux and SG as always. This would just be an additional option for long-time players who feel heavily disadvantaged in a tournament or something.

Then it's not a solution at all. It's only a solution to those with that much Gold. I know of several players with 1 mil God, but TWO mil? GaZ is the only one who comes to mind. You're likelier to get a Slasher after a looooooong time of playing before you rack up 2 mil Gold. I'm positive there are very few people who this 'solution' would do anything for, in fact, IMO, it'd only serve as an unreachable(or reachable over such a ridiculously long period of time it's not worth it) goal to some people.

I personally do not feel that there is much of a problem with other drop rates. There are plenty BC drops (which Meiun thinks might need lowering) and spire is a very rare and powerful weapon. Arguably the best in the game, it drops every couple of weeks ago averagely.. Multiple players have duplicates of the spire. Increasing its drop rate would be stupid IMO. In addition, DKH has been dropped 3-4 times in the last 2 weeks, that's not bad. DH is common enough.. Why is a global drop rate increase necessary, when clearly the only weapon you guys are annoyed about is Spire. Which is SUPPOSED to be rare. Someone got it just yesterday. Just because you may see yourself as particularly unlucky with it doesn't mean it NEEDS to be increased.

I'm not. I'm annoyed about more drops(Great Sword, Dark Knight Helm, Bandit Cover, Inferno Sword, Spire Dagger, Slasher). I can attest to DH being somewhat common, as I got it when I didn't want it(I still don't, just keeping it because I won't get it again).

Also, something else to consider. The drops were not like that until recently, just because of a massive boom in activity. This is one of the most active months of the donor server. And I'm pretty sure they still do not drop that often.

'Multiple players have duplicates of the Spire'? Not on one account(only one who that happened to was gufi.). The ones who have multiples would be igu, you, and Dipz. I can't think of any others. But Jezza has 3 ISs. Does that mean it's common? (I'm sure there's ONE other person with multiples.) DeamonClawz has 2 Slashers. And you have 2 Slashers(on separate accounts). Does that mean it's common?

I never said it needed to be increased. I said it would be greatly appreciated, and I don't mind if you guys don't. I'm grateful for the donor server as it is already. But if we have official tournaments on the donor server still, and these players will be remembered later on...I think it's important to keep into consideration.

But I don't think only Slasher in shop for 2 mil Gold will do anything. In my eyes, it's an annoyance.

EDIT: I rather like Chaos' suggested solution to this. I wouldn't mind having that in-game.

[ARTgames]

I dislike it how gold must be reset for the items to be sold. That's your own fault that you thought it was worthless and did not pick it up. I don't feel its fair that I did take all that time to pick up that gold and when it has a value I have to loose it all. I did my work already to get that gold. Just because you did not I don't think I should have to be leveled with you.

I feel like I'm being punished for doing it to start with.  That is if that ever happens.

[Lucifer]

I dislike it how gold must be reset for the items to be sold. That's your own fault that you thought it was worthless and did not pick it up. I don't feel its fair that I did take all that time to pick up that gold and when it has a value I have to loose it all. I did my work already to get that gold. Just because you did not I don't think I should have to be leveled with you.

I feel like I'm being punished for doing it to start with.  That is if that ever happens.

I like the concept of gold not being reset, and Slasher being sold for ~2mil. This is not only awarding long-term players who've stacked up gold for ages, but providing a means to an ends for players who just lack luck. It's true it would take a very long time to get, but when you actually put your mind to getting gold, it's realistically easier than this "1-100" way of thinking, as during this time nobody thinks about gold. I don't believe increasing the drop rate of Slasher will do Anything, as achieving it is frankly unrealistic, it takes hours to spawn an SG, and another hour to kill it with ~20 people. This just provides another way, and although not an easy one, it's still plausible to achieve.

[Mystery]

I dislike it how gold must be reset for the items to be sold. That's your own fault that you thought it was worthless and did not pick it up. I don't feel its fair that I did take all that time to pick up that gold and when it has a value I have to loose it all. I did my work already to get that gold. Just because you did not I don't think I should have to be leveled with you.

I feel like I'm being punished for doing it to start with.  That is if that ever happens.

I like the concept of gold not being reset, and Slasher being sold for ~2mil. This is not only awarding long-term players who've stacked up gold for ages, but providing a means to an ends for players who just lack luck. It's true it would take a very long time to get, but when you actually put your mind to getting gold, it's realistically easier than this "1-100" way of thinking, as during this time nobody thinks about gold. I don't believe increasing the drop rate of Slasher will do Anything, as achieving it is frankly unrealistic, it takes hours to spawn an SG, and another hour to kill it with ~20 people. This just provides another way, and although not an easy one, it's still plausible to achieve.

So we should only be awarding those who've racked up Gold for ages, instead of giving everyone a fairer chance? And the means to an end in this case takes so ridiculously long.....it might be plausible, but realistic? No.

I'd think it'd be more effective to SG hunt for Slasher than it would be to Gold hunt for Slasher for 2 million Gold. Even if you put your mind to hunting Gold, it'd probably be a YEAR before you got a million Gold, if not more. Several players don't even have 1 million Gold.

Sorry, but this 'solution' just creates another, even bigger grindfest. A grindfest for Gold, in every sense of the word.