Death.. Then what?

[ARTgames]

Not sure if that works Art. Think about it, if the list went like this:

012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789

Every number zero through nine would be in the list the same exact amount. But, there is a definite pattern. The selection of the numbers is not random at all. For a set of numbers to truely be random there should be no pattern whatsoever.

I thought of that but from some reason i thought there was a way to tell. Im ether leaving out a step or that's the wrong way to do it. Well you got me! :)

[Lingus]

Well, no, it's actually not a bad test, it's just lacking. If you think about it, if you take a large enough set, the numbers should be relatively evened out. For instance, in a coin flip test. If you do 2 flips, you might get heads twice. But if you do a million flips, the ratio will be very close to 50:50. It would be the same with a set of numbers, but since there's 10 digits the set would have to be very large for the ratios to even out. So that test wouldn't work if you only had a set of 100 numbers. Even if the numbers are completely random, it's statistically possible for some of the digits to be chosen more often and some less often. If you had a set of around a billion (even a million would probably work) then the ratio would probably even out.

So there's definitely another step to figuring randomness. You have to see if there's a pattern.

But to go further with that. If you did a massive number of sets of massive numbers of digits (if you took a billion sets that contain a billion numbers each) then it's more and more likely that a pattern will arise. It's the whole, "Put a hundred monkeys in a room with typewriters for long enough and they'll eventually crank out Shakespeare." So even though the process is completely random, a pattern will arise from it.

That is the whole idea behind the universe. For millions of years after the creation of the universe there was nothing but giant clouds of gas. After a long enough period of time, they coalesced and formed stars which exploded to form more stars which exploded to form planets and so on and so on. This only occured because of the amount of time that it took.

[ARTgames]

yes i agree Lingus. I guess at this point all i believe in is infantry loops and waves.

(btw Lingus i half to say your really are quite a smart person. much more than me.)

[Lingus]

Nah. I wouldn't say I'm that smart. Half the stuff I'm talking about I don't fully understand. I think I just absorb information that I see, and I spend a good amount of time watching shows about this kind of stuff. Discovery channel and all that.

Can you explain what you mean there? Did you mean infinity loops?

Or should we bring the topic back closer to the original discussion?

[Mr Pwnage]

all i believe in is infantry loops and waves.

Life is a video game for you than? Nothing like nothing like an endless cycle of soldiers and waves of zombies to kill.

[ARTgames]

all i believe in is infantry loops and waves.

Life is a video game for you than? Nothing like nothing like an endless cycle of soldiers and waves of zombies to kill.

ohh lol! thank you for pointing that out. i meant infinity not infantry. >_<

@Lingus well i was going to post saying you sound like the Discovery channel but i thought that might be rude. :P I guess we should bring it back to original discussion. But you do say things well and i agree with it.

[Cactuscat222]

I'd still argue that a series like 12121212 from the numbers 0-9 would be random. It has a pattern, but it doesn't mean its not random.

What you guys are talking about reminds of circuits and Euler circuits from Calc. Interesting things - I forget exactly, but I'd have to look at my notes, but you can establish the chance that a certain path/route is taken by multiplying the matrix (or the adjacency matrix) by a large enough number.

[ARTgames]

I'd still argue that a series like 12121212 from the numbers 0-9 would be random. It has a pattern, but it doesn't mean its not random.

no he means like if the whole thing was 12121. not just a part.

[Delicious]

I really enjoy the read.
We never know for sure what the outcome would be like, however. This thread could only be filled with suggestions, some may be true, though life after death seems very much unlikely the more I think about it. Though, with such a massive universe - most likely endless - I keep thinking what is held out there, which is yet another mind-blowing ponder.

[Lingus]

I'd still argue that a series like 12121212 from the numbers 0-9 would be random. It has a pattern, but it doesn't mean its not random.

What you guys are talking about reminds of circuits and Euler circuits from Calc. Interesting things - I forget exactly, but I'd have to look at my notes, but you can establish the chance that a certain path/route is taken by multiplying the matrix (or the adjacency matrix) by a large enough number.

I think I see what you're saying. That it's possible, through means of a completely random process, for those numbers to be chosen. Though, the problem with that is that if that were to happen with only one try, it would be a statistical anomoly. If it happened after running that set hundreds or thousands of times (not sure on the actual numbers) then it would become more plausible. I'm just saying if you turned on a random number generator (even taking into consideration that as Jake mentioned they aren't completely random) and it started cranking out a series like 1212121212121212... you'd have to question whether there isn't something wrong with the code... or that the universe isn't about to implode. Something like that happening completely at random is extremely unlikely.

[Cactuscat222]

I'd still argue that a series like 12121212 from the numbers 0-9 would be random. It has a pattern, but it doesn't mean its not random.

What you guys are talking about reminds of circuits and Euler circuits from Calc. Interesting things - I forget exactly, but I'd have to look at my notes, but you can establish the chance that a certain path/route is taken by multiplying the matrix (or the adjacency matrix) by a large enough number.

I think I see what you're saying. That it's possible, through means of a completely random process, for those numbers to be chosen. Though, the problem with that is that if that were to happen with only one try, it would be a statistical anomoly. If it happened after running that set hundreds or thousands of times (not sure on the actual numbers) then it would become more plausible. I'm just saying if you turned on a random number generator (even taking into consideration that as Jake mentioned they aren't completely random) and it started cranking out a series like 1212121212121212... you'd have to question whether there isn't something wrong with the code... or that the universe isn't about to implode. Something like that happening completely at random is extremely unlikely.

"Improbable, but not impossible" to quote a good movie. :P Yes, it is very unlikely, but none-the-less possible.

[Lingus]

Right. Which further goes to prove my comment that it is not possible to prove randomness. Even if you find a pattern, the method used to choose those numbers might still have been random. Which is a good point to bring up. A lot of people say that the patterns found throughout the universe are a reason to believe in a higher power. This is not necessarily true. The patterns could have come about through completely random occurances. And unlike our example of 1 instance of choosing a set of numbers, the universe has had billions of years to create patterns.

[Red October]

The only conciousness you have is in your brain. When your brain dies, so does your conciousness.

This is my belief.
I don't go to church...and I see life threw a more scientific view...for 2 reasons:
1) It's easier for me to understand things. Like that every death is somewhat logical. And I like simple.
2) I don't feel that I have to blame some god for sombody's passing. I never blame. I just celebrate the life they did have, and carry them in my thoughts. I have had many deaths in the family/neighborhood, and it is the most intense form of sadness to see sombody you know, even just barely, laying before you in a lifeless body, and I cry now just typing about it. Gah, I just lost what I was thinking about...I have to go lay down...

Might I have my input? Okay thanks.
Christians believe that death occurs because its apart of God's plan. The result of thinking of this is often being less sad when someone passes away, due to the fact they know that, that person has gone somewhere better (Heaven). I witnessed this three weeks ago when my favourite (and most popular) teacher whom passed away; due to a heart attack.

Also with your comment about seeing life in a more scientific view; well I use to be like you until one day (about half a year ago). I thought that if God exists then we should praise him, as we cannot prove or disprove this, then praising them can't be bad, but then if God doesn't exist then it doesn't really matter.

[Chaos]

Until you realize 'God' is supposed to be a 'perfect' and omnipotent being, and realize that he doesn't need to be praised or worshiped because he does not experience pride.

[Lingus]

I thought that if God exists then we should praise him, as we cannot prove or disprove this, then praising them can't be bad, but then if God doesn't exist then it doesn't really matter.

Except that logic is flawed (in multiple ways, but one of them is...) because if God is truly all knowing he would know your true intent and see you for the false believer that you are. If God truly wanted praise he wouldn't accept lip service.