Death.. Then what?

[Red October]

I think this an appropriate time and place to bring this up:
http://liberator.net/articles/AdamsKen/BibleJustice.html

This is a very useful article, thanks for bringing it up and just reinforces the outdated-ness of the bible. I would like to focus two points from this link.

Firstly the manner the laws are told is very straightforward and blunt, the crime often ends with the offender being out to death or a harsh punishment. ?If a woman grabs a man's privates during a fight, her hand is to be cut off. (Duet 25:11,12)?. This will obviously never happen nowadays. But the quote also suggests that the writer was sexist - common in those days. Chaos already made the point that as Christians consider the bible to be the word of god, fact is man wrote the bible (claiming under the influence of god), so they are going to naturally support what was considered as good at the time (slavery, capital punishment etc). If the bible was written these days, we should have a different laws to follow compared to almost 2000 years ago.

Secondly is the idea of the Sabbath day. Those who don't know what this is, basically it's Sunday; a day to not work. One of the ten commandments (4th I think) states that no one should work on the day of the Sabbath. This idea is completely removed from western culture and probably most other parts of the world. I don't need to explain this at all, we all know that the bible needs to be updated, which no one will do.

[Cactuscat222]

@Chaos: Ah I see, I didn't understand. Thanks.

@Red October: I don't see a need to update the bible - there isn't any reason. Follow what you will, the bible still holds many values and morals that are very important (to everyone, not just Christians), and the traditions for Christians that are still followed today. Jake, who is more educated in this than I am, has also made the point that it isn't "you must follow the bible to its every word!", for that is ridiculous. Its merely to accept God into your life, repent, admit your sins, and you shall be forgiven.

EDIT: As I've stated before, and I'll state again, I'm NOT majorly religious. However, I have my beliefs.

[Red October]

@Red October: I don't see a need to update the bible - there isn't any reason. Follow what you will, the bible still holds many values and morals that are very important (to everyone, not just Christians), and the traditions for Christians that are still followed today. Jake, who is more educated in this than I am, has also made the point that it isn't "you must follow the bible to its every word!", for that is ridiculous. Its merely to accept God into your life, repent, admit your sins, and you shall be forgiven.

EDIT: As I've stated before, and I'll state again, I'm NOT majorly religious. However, I have my beliefs.

I never said there was a vital need to update the bible. Jake's is completely correct, but you must remember that not all Christians will follow this advice. I personally know a couple of people who would be very hostile if I suggested that the concept that parts of the bible should be ignored. Its these people that make Christianity seem off putting, to me personally.

[Torch]

I think the best answer to gods opinion on slavery is that we don't know for sure if he agrees with it or does not. Unless you can show me evidence pointing one way or the other.

At the time the bible was written, slavery was an accepted part of society. This is another example of how the bible is outdated. Morals and laws that may have had meaning back then don't necessarily make sense in today's society. It is important for people to for themselves what is right and wrong instead of following an outdated book.

"God's" opinion of slavery was simply society's opinion on slavery at the time and has no relevance today.

You're forgetting that Jake already pointed out that the bible does not say God supports slavery, it merely provides rules about its use, which makes your major point moot.  It is a weak point, perhaps, but a point nonetheless.  Unless you can provide evidence that is stating otherwise?

But the fact that the bible acknowledges slavery and is not directly against it is enough for my point to still stand. Slavery in today's society is considered completely immoral. At the time of the bible being written, slavery was viewed completely differently and wasn't necessarily considered immoral. The bible's laws for slavery were created in a time when people were not completely against it. It's impractical to apply these teachings to a society that is so different from the society in which they were written.

[Chaos]

Perhaps.  As Red October stated, an update to the bible may be in order.  At the same time, I bring up my point that, if it were "God's word", it shouldn't require updating.

@Cactus:  "Its merely to accept God into your life, repent, admit your sins, and you shall be forgiven."

Then what do we need the bible for?  If I have a piece of bread with spots of mold, I don't just eat the bread and try to ignore it.  Remove the mold, or get a new piece of bread.

Of course, that means removing parts from a book that is "God's word".  Should we really be editing God's word?  Should we even be in the position where we'd need to be editing God's word?  Is it God's word at all?  Is it a bunch of people's words, who wanted to fear-monger the general population into following them?

Hell, we have people that do that to this day.  They're called politicians.

[Red October]

Of course, that means removing parts from a book that is "God's word".  Should we really be editing God's word?

No, as I said before, if it was really God's word then no one would dare to edit it.

1984 comes to mind. ;)

[ARTgames]

@Red October: I don't see a need to update the bible - there isn't any reason. Follow what you will, the bible still holds many values and morals that are very important (to everyone, not just Christians), and the traditions for Christians that are still followed today. Jake, who is more educated in this than I am, has also made the point that it isn't "you must follow the bible to its every word!", for that is ridiculous. Its merely to accept God into your life, repent, admit your sins, and you shall be forgiven.

Cactuscat222 do you think its possible from some one to learn these commonly accepted morals without ever reading the bible or even knowing of a god?

off topic spam: woot 200 posts!

[Red October]

Cactuscat222 do you think its possible from some one to learn these commonly accepted morals without ever reading the bible or even knowing of a god?

Almost every religion in the world sets morals, each religion differs from other, but have common ones, like "don't kill". Example, here is the five basic Buddhist precepts;

Refraining from harming living beings,
Refraining from taking things not freely given,
Refraining from sexual misconduct,
Refraining from false speech,
Refraining from intoxicating drinks and drugs.

Comparing this to Christianity the first four precepts match up. However the bible doesn't say that Christians shouldn't drink, even though it's not recommend, as it leads to sin. So, its possible to learn about common moral, you can learn them from your parents.

[ARTgames]

So, its possible to learn about common moral, you can learn them from your parents.

Other than learning about morals and culture, what else would you consider to be valuable from religion?

[Red October]

Other than learning about morals and culture, what else would you consider to be valuable from religion?

Religion's main concepts are what you should during life and what will happen after life. Christians believe that they will go into heaven and sinners will be cast into hell (so they can party with Lucifer). This gives them purpose to keep living and not rebel to there God. I invite you read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Heaven.

[ARTgames]

Other than learning about morals and culture, what else would you consider to be valuable from religion?

Religion's main concepts are what you should during life and what will happen after life.

what i should what? should be doing?

also

Most of this religion seems like an insurance to the after life also. Something we really know nothing about. Ill leave that there.

[Red October]

Religion's main concepts are what you should be doing during your life and what will happen after life.

what i should what? should be doing?

Bolded the errors. Sorry about that.

[Jake]

Other than learning about morals and culture, what else would you consider to be valuable from religion?

Religion's main concepts are what you should during life and what will happen after life.

what i should what? should be doing?

also

Most of this religion seems like an insurance to the after life also. Something we really know nothing about. Ill leave that there.

One could say that, but I don't think it's very strong evidence against religion. I could say that atheism is simply an excuse to not have to obey a moral code, but what do I have to support that claim? I'm not denying the possibility that religion was created out of fear, because I don't have enough info to prove a theory like that wrong.

[ARTgames]

Other than learning about morals and culture, what else would you consider to be valuable from religion?

Religion's main concepts are what you should during life and what will happen after life.

what i should what? should be doing?

also

Most of this religion seems like an insurance to the after life also. Something we really know nothing about. Ill leave that there.

One could say that. I wouldn't say it's very strong evidence against religion. I could say that atheism is simply an excuse to not obey rules, but what do I have to support that claim?

People live just fine not believing in the same thing. Thus proving that what ever religion your practicing now is not making you live any better than any one else because you cant prove one opinion is better than another.

you cant disprove some ones opinion about the after life. Unless you die and come back with some sort of proof.

My post was not against religion. i did not say that any ware in that post. Unless you can point out ware i said "because of <something> religion is false." All i said is what we know for sure. What you do with that info is up to you. that's why i "l leave that there." so you can pick it up and do what you what. you your self tuned that into "evidence against religion." now your arguing with your self. have fun.

[Jake]

Was this post to me or someone else?

I may have taken what you said wrong. Many people use the argument that religion is simply an outlet that people go to because they're scared. I thought you were bringing up the same argument as evidence against religion, so I was replying in response to that. Sorry. 0_o. After doing nothing but defend religion lately, my senses are tuned to find danger lurking in every sentence... If you know what I mean  :P

Anyway, I think it's about time the Atheists go on the defense. So lets see here, what kind of crap can I pull up to make them squirm... How about the heat death of the universe. There is strong evidence out there that over time (this amount of time is really f****in long) the energy in the universe will equalize and cease to move. Well, that's a very simplistic explanation for it. Either way, this evidence brings forth to light the idea that the universe itself was created. It cannot have always existed because then it would have ended before the time we were created in a heat death.

I'm also interested in the mindset of an Atheist. I know a lot of people that seem to be on a goal to enlighten the world from religion. What is the motive behind this? You should envy ignorance, because ignorance is bliss. if somebody believes in a false religion, but they're happy about it, they should be winners in an atheists book because at least they'll be happy before they drift off into nothingness when they die. Isn't that the only thing that really matters to an atheist? Being happy in the time they have and then death. Gaining knowledge shouldn't matter, because it's useless after death. Unless that knowledge leads you to happiness, in which case it's what you should strive for. But why let that knowledge invade on other people's harmony? Is it that even an Atheist tries to find meaning in ones own life? They try to tell themselves that the neurons being fired off after their own neurons finish existing really matters, and that by changing the course of neurons, they can actually make a difference.

Why should I care about any of you? You're simply matter. Chemicals and synapses acting in a way to act intelligently. Your entire personality is the result of a structure of atoms. The emotion you would feel if I called you a "poo pusher" isn't anything but your brain reacting to light waves that are transmitted to your eyes.

Now that you know your life doesn't matter, feel happy! For many atheists, the first step is pretending that their life does matter and then still holding strongly onto their contradictory beliefs.