Death.. Then what?

[NotoriousM4^]

Lol. I wish the Mormon kid (i think his name was GuineaPants or HamsterPants) was around. He'd always try and convert people on S.O., and would get all defensive about topics like these.

[Lingus]

Wow. Finally got to the end here. I probably won't be around for another 10 pages to back up anything I'm saying right now, so I'll make concise points that people can use for discussion... but please don't expect me to answer any follow up questions (I might, but don't expect it to be soon.. I'm just not on the forums as often any more).

So, this is going way back to the slavery bit. I really have to point out that several of the bible passages quoted in that EvilBible page were originally from the Torah. Leviticus and Exodus to be specific. I find it interesting that everyone chose to single out Christianity because those books are also considered to be a part of the Christian's Bible Old Testament. In reality, the Torah and other books of the Jewish religion contain a crap load more rules and laws than the New Testament does (at least this is my perception).

As most people know, I am Jewish. As you may not know, I do not follow the religion. I consider myself to be Jewish by ethnicity, and only a little by culture. I relate to the religion almost not at all. It is one of the only religions people can really do that with because the Jewish people separated themselves out of most regions that they moved to. So I would not say that I am part Russian (even though my great grandmother is from Russia) I would say that I am Russian Jewish.

But I digress... the reason I am telling you this is because I couldn't claim to argue for the Jewish religion. I simply don't know enough about it. I have several friends who are orthodox though and they could answer questions like, "Does God, in the Jewish religion, condone slavery?" My thoughts are that they would answer much as what had been posted by someone earlier in this topic. He simply laid out the rules and left it up to us to decide whether it was right or wrong. In terms of ethics, it makes sense that you can have a slave so long as you treat them well. The only reason why slavery in America and most other places is BAD is because the slaves were all treated so horribly. Imagine if all the slaves were put up in 5 star hotels, fed lavishly, bathed in opulence. And all they had to do was work an 8 hour day in the fields. There's people who do more than that now for less pay. Would slavery in that sense be wrong or bad? My opinion is that it would be looked down upon less. Sure, there is still the matter of the slaves not being allowed to choose their own path and what not... but I honestly don't know how the torah deals with that. I don't know if it has further rules about the slaves release. Furthermore, it's also likely that you would get different answers depending on what Rabbi you ask. One might tell you something similar to the above, but they might also add that it is no longer acceptable to have slaves due to the current laws and social perceptions of it. This has nothing to do with the actual passages in the Torah. The Jewish religion, to my understanding has a pretty open view of how to follow God's word, and how to interpret it.

With that said, a lot of things brought up in the link mentioning all of God's laws. A lot of that is from the Jewish religion. And again, it is explained as having been brought about by the culture at the time follow certain guidelines and after many years it was taken to a different level. Such as Kosher; all of the different rules about what is acceptable to eat and what is not. A lot of it comes from very simple statements to the effect of, "You may not boil a calf in its mother's milk." This was taken to the extreme in that someone following Kosher can not eat dairy and meat in the same meal... nor can that allow dishes or appliances to touch both dairy and meat. What this means today? People will have entirely separate dishes and utensils for dairy and meat. Some even have entirely different ovens, refridgerators, dishwashers... just so they are not contaminated. There's all manner of crazy things that orthodox Jewish people do along these lines. It has become more about tradition and culture than anything else.

Anyways, there was a lot to touch on. Maybe I'll come back and touch on some other things.

[HamsterPants]

Lol. I wish the Mormon kid (i think his name was GuineaPants or HamsterPants) was around. He'd always try and convert people on S.O., and would get all defensive about topics like these.

Lol, hi.....

Yeah, that's actually the reason I left, because I was being a total retard, so I needed to take some time off to reflect and I've improved alot. I dont need to worry about converting you guys, I mean, according to my beleifs you'll all probably be converted anyway, wether you're alive or not.

But anyway, i've learned alot, I've become more tolerant, more mature and sympathetic, and if something is bothering me, then I'll leave, instead of "getting all defensive about it".

Anyway though, I do like topics like this, I've never considered them to be depressing though, death just doesnt matter to me, needless to say, it is a difficult thing to witness.

[ARTgames]

according to my beleifs you'll all probably be converted anyway, wether you're alive or not.

please expand on this. This is an interesting way of thought.

[HamsterPants]

according to my beleifs you'll all probably be converted anyway, wether you're alive or not.

please expand on this. This is an interesting way of thought.

Well, the mormons believe, that every human being will have a chance to be saved, for example, there are countless people who have died never knowing about Christ, so it would only be nescessary for there to be convertion in the afterlife, this is why we practice baptism for the dead in our temples. We also beleive, that before judgement day, everyone will have a full knowledge of which choice is the right one, and that most people will be saved, and the number of people who will be "thrust into outer darkness" can be counted with a single hand.

We beleive in three levels of heaven, as it states in the Bible, "Three Degrees of Glory", from highest to lowest:
Celestial Kingdom
Terestrial Kingdom
Telestial Kingdom

Most people will go the the lowest level, it's not bad, it's actually a much better place than this planet, but Christ only comes to visit once in a while.

We also beleive that there are three levels within each kingdom, and that the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom is the most desired.

It is described that each kingdom is equal in glory to the brightness of the Cosmoz: Sun=Celestial, Moon=Terestial, and Stars=Telestial.


So basically, if mormonism turns out to be true, consider yourself lucky.

[ARTgames]

Well your beliefs are noted and ill respected them. Are you still in practice now?

A little off topic. What is your sig?

[HamsterPants]

Well your beliefs are noted and ill respected them. Are you still in practice now?

A little off topic. What is your sig?

I don't know what practice you are talking about. Unless you mean baptism for the dead.

My sig literally says "hamstirpantirs" with Anglo-Saxon Runes, that's as close as I can get.

[NotoriousM4^]

according to my beleifs you'll all probably be converted anyway, wether you're alive or not.

please expand on this. This is an interesting way of thought.

Most people will go the the lowest level, it's not bad, it's actually a much better place than this planet, but Christ only comes to visit once in a while.

I Lol'd for some reason at that last quote.
Anyways, Do Mormons really believe that black people are the descendants of Cain?

[ARTgames]

I don't know what practice you are talking about. Unless you mean baptism for the dead.

My bad i meant practice. And by practice i mean do you go to church and follow the customs and such.

[HamsterPants]

I don't know what practice you are talking about. Unless you mean baptism for the dead.

My bad i meant practice. And by practice i mean do you go to church and follow the customs and such.

Yes, I am an active member of the Church.

according to my beleifs you'll all probably be converted anyway, wether you're alive or not.

please expand on this. This is an interesting way of thought.

Most people will go the the lowest level, it's not bad, it's actually a much better place than this planet, but Christ only comes to visit once in a while.

I Lol'd for some reason at that last quote.
Anyways, Do Mormons really believe that black people are the descendants of Cain?

Not all black people are descentants of Cain, but we do beleive it to be a curse because of the wickedness of their ancestors, however we do not consider color to be a problem in any way. In the past, we could not allow black people to practice preisthood ordinances, but it wasnt our choice to make, we were waiting for God to give us permission. I know that sounds kinda rediculous be we beleive that God governs our church through the Prophet, just like in the bible.

Just a little fun fact, we also beleive that Cain is still alive, as a curse, so that he will witness the misery that he brought upon the world, but he cannot hurt us.

[Petro]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFZ1jVO3-OE&feature=related

That video contains all you need to know about Mormonism, including what they think about the blacks. I was actually wondering how accurate that video/cartoon is. My friend who is Mormon most of it is true except for the crazy weird thinks which are false...What do you think of it Hamster?

[Trogdor]

I believe that no matter what faith (if any) you are, who you believe in (if anyone), or how you should act in this life (or in future lives), as long as you live your life to the fullest and treat others compassionately, good will come of it (whether it be union with God, Allah, Brahman, a higher caste when reincarnated, elimination of karma from previous lives, etc.).

About what happens after death, I don't think it's just one religious sect that's right, while the rest is wrong. My family is fascinated with religion, and although we ourselves are not religious, we take the strong points out of certain religious philosophies and apply them to our lives, and omit certain things that do not pertain. Just like how one set of clothing does not fit everyone, one set of religious doctrines does not necessarily fit everyone. If my family and I decide a certain principle does not benefit our existence, we discard it, and if it does, we keep it until further notice.

I suppose we will never know (on a personal level) what happens after death until we ourselves are dead. Until then, we can put that mystery on hold. Luckily it's one of the mysteries of the world guaranteed to be revealed to every living being, whether they like it or not.  ;)

[HamsterPants]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFZ1jVO3-OE&feature=related

That video contains all you need to know about Mormonism, including what they think about the blacks. I was actually wondering how accurate that video/cartoon is. My friend who is Mormon most of it is true except for the crazy weird thinks which are false...What do you think of it Hamster?

Upon studying this video, most of the things that are mentioned, are true, to list some things that are not, the most important would probably be that God did not have sex with the Virgin Mary, we do not beleive that, we beleive that she became pregenant by the power of God, but Heavenly Father committing adultery doesnt make any sense. We do not beleive that Heavenly Father has more than one wife, in fact, we are not supposed to speak about him having any wife at all, simply out of respect, that is why we dont like to talk about it, it's not a secret it's just sacred. We do not beleive that Jesus had more than one wife, we do beleive that he had to marry someone, as it is a commandment of God, and Christ had to follow every commandment in order to set an example for us. Again, the reason why it is not talked about clearly in the bible is out of respect, because it is a very sacred thing. We do not beleive in poligamy, it is something that people have hated us for, we did not want to do it, we did not enjoy it, but we had no choice at the time, it was actually something that caused many members to fall away, which is exactly why it happened. In the Bible, poligamy was a prominent practice, it is not against the laws of God to marry more than one wife, but we still dont like to do it.
On a final note, most of the things which are talked about, such as deep doctrine, are completely useless to our salvation, which is why we dont care to talk about them, they are not very important.

All in all, this video feels very hateful, they say everything in a way that makes you want to be upset. That is my view on this cartoon.

Edit: I forgot to mention that I laughed when i saw how ugly they depicted Lucifer. We actually beleive him to be a very beautiful and charming man, that is how he was able to persuade so many to his ends, and how he is able to tempt us.

[Jake]

With deepest respect for your beliefs, why is it that you follow Mormonism? I'm only asking this because I am deeply interested in the reason for one's beliefs regarding religion (especially ones that I know little about).

What are your thoughts on Joseph Smith? Is it true that Mormons consider him a saint? What are your thoughts on accusations calling him a liar and a fraud?

[HamsterPants]

With deepest respect for your beliefs, why is it that you follow Mormonism? I'm only asking this because I am deeply interested in the reason for one's beliefs regarding religion (especially ones that I know little about).

I follow it because I beleive that it will lead me to salvation, I have been happy as long as I've done the things which I beleive are right, even if it's challenging and I can't be perfect, I'm happy, that is something that cannot be described, happiness is what we all, as human beings want, and I know that I have it. It's a feeling that strengthens your faith, the Holy Spirit, he confirms the truth in a way that you can rely on. I've studied the scriptures, and I ask God if they are true, and I have received an answer every time, and that is the only thing we encourage other people to do. We want to bring souls unto Christ.
And the reason I follow mormonism is because I want to return to Christ, with all my loved ones, and be happy for the rest of eternity. All that is required of me is to work with as much effort as I can expend until the end of my days, and though this may seem like alot, it is the least we can do for what Christ suffered for us. We have a fullness of the Gospel, while other Christian churches are incomplete, and they hate us, we are despised by the world, and we endure their persecution, and that makes us stronger.

I have a testimony that these things are true, because they are my life, they are all that I know, and I hope that you will find it useful.