Death.. Then what?

[venuse]

hm death, well considering i dont follow the local religions i basically made up my own beliefs about what happens after, sorry i have no religion only a set of beliefs which i change if i find them to conceptually wrong or illogical in my own mind :P anyways first ill say that i believe peoples memories are stuck in their brains and dont carry over into their souls, to me the soul is more like a composite of the person's emotions and thinking patterns. so in my belief system i believe that when a person dies one of a few things happen, if that person isnt at peace when he or she dies the soul either wonders around trying to figure out how to attain peace or attaches itself to a new host if you want to call it that. if the person was at peace the soul moves on to the after life,what ever that is lets say heaven, or choose to be reincarnated. now if a person, in my eyes, commits suicide to me it is the act of stealing one's own life for a lack of better words and that soul must give a life in return but since a soul cant poses a life, that soul becomes cursed by the act of suicide and then becomes stuck to a another person's soul and must live that life in peace inorder to move on or to become uncursed. however, that person must also bare the burden of that cursed soul. as for truly evil people like murders and rapist well thats hard to say, i do believe in a hell but i dont think of it as a lake of fire or imps with pitch forks, rather i see it as an existence in which that soul must indure the guilt, shame and self disgust of the said actions. on a side note i dont believe a soul is either good or evil, the living choose to be good or evil the soul is just along for the ride.

there is more to my belief system but there isnt any need to say more. also these are only my beliefs and i know some of it sounds alittle silly but ohwell.

[Lingus]

Not trying to be rude, just making a comment about my observations of your post. I find it interesting that you don't really follow a religion and have come up with these beliefs on your own. It's good, I like it, I just have some comments about it. I agree with memory being "stuck" in the brain. But, I also think emotions and thought patterns are products of the brain as well. Using a logical process, you would not be able to pick out any one thing that could make up the soul. Everything we know about what makes a person who they are could logically be explained by some process. With that in mind, if the soul exists, it would be something intangible. Something you couldn't really explain about a person. Something that if you took all the composite behaviors, thoughts, or emotions would be missing.

As far as the set of rules for what happens when someone dies, I see know evidence to believe that anything different will happen to someone's "soul" depending on their actions in life. And, if something different does happen, such as one person going to "Hell" and another "Heavan", I don't see how we would have any idea as to what that would actually be. I think it is flawed logic to take our culture's ideas of justice and inject them into the metaphysical world. Just because we think something is wrong or bad doesn't mean the Universe thinks the same way. In fact, even within our own world certain cultures will vary widely on what they view as right and wrong. And as far as "unrestfull spirits" I can see a sort of logic in it. If in life you hung on to something, your soul must hang onto it in the afterlife. But again, there's no evidence to show it will actually happen that way. And in truth, the reason why something is "unfinished" is ussually a physical problem, not metaphysical. Not telling someone you loved them before you died will not be a problem after you die.

Anyways, I know these are just your opinions and beliefs. I just wanted to throw this out there since it sounds like you were saying you used a logical process to come up with this stuff. It's really just food for thought. Take it for what it's worth. If you find logic in anything I have said and can use it to alter your views then that's cool, but if not then that's cool too. I don't need everyone to think the way I do.

[venuse]

well actually i didnt really say logic as other people see it but logic in my own mind and my own way of viewing it. mostly my beliefs are about trying to balance things out and karma. ya i know that stuff comes from other religions like Buddhism and probably others but different parts of different religions just kinda click with me while others dont so i take tidbits from each, or make my own parts, that click and incorporate them into my beliefs system. further more i try to incorporate the spiritual, scientific and evolutionary into one way of thinking. however that doesnt mean i have everything thought out because most of the time i dont think about it, i just go with the flow of the feelings of it, if that makes any since. mostly just putting my own feelings into what i believe, be it wrong or right.

also i do have a reason for the whole cursed souls and stuff but i would prefer not to say because it would sound silly.

also as for the thought patterns and emotions bit i kinda agree that the body does contribute to it although i see it as more as the emotions of the physical body altering or overriding the emotions of the spirit or soul, the soul has its own core emotions and patterns. im probably not explaining my thoughts well, its kinda hard to express a feeling into words. kinda wish i would of wrote all my beliefs down so i could go back and reference them hahaha :P

[Lingus]

I see. Well works for me. I say your point of view is just as valid as some of the major religions. If they can make up their own rules why can't you?

[Jake]

I see. Well works for me. I say your point of view is just as valid as some of the major religions. If they can make up their own rules why can't you?

Psh, those rules are sent to them by God! Go ahead, prove me wrong! Do it!

That's what I thought  8)

[Lingus]

I can't prove you wrong, but you can't prove you're right either. <== That, my friends, is my entire philosophy on life.

[ARTgames]

why base owr beliefs of stuff we can never prove when we can do so with things we can prove?

If you want to live in your own world go ahead. I cant stop you. But my personal prefrents would be to believe it something that i can work with and change and grow as we discover. That's just me thoe.

[Lingus]

I think the difference is with things that no one knows. You can't base your beliefs on facts if there are none. Your belief can be that you don't know... which is okay (that's what I do). But some people aren't okay with that. They are either afraid of the unknown, or something... but they choose to believe in something even when there are no facts. My personal opinion is that's okay to do also. Most people don't agree with that. They either feel that you can't do that at all, or they feel that everyone who does that and comes up with something different than them have it wrong. That's the one type of belief I am not okay with, especially when it leads them to speak out and/or attempt to force others into their own way of thought. Of course, that's a generalization. There's a lot of people who are okay with other people having different beliefs.

[ARTgames]

I think the difference is with things that no one knows. You can't base your beliefs on facts if there are none.

which is my point.

why base owr beliefs of stuff we can never prove

But to clear up something else, i am open to theory of the unknown. That is part of the discovery. You try and find out about it and that will lead you to some kind of discovery. Even if that discovery is that its impossible for you to find out. Make it a fact that you don't know. And if you do find out then change it.

[Lingus]

Yea. I think we both agree. I think that is part of the flaw in choosing to believe in something that has no basis in fact. Because even if facts turn up that contradict your beliefs, you will be less likely to accept those truths and attempt to hold on to your belief system even though it is flawed. Of course, not everyone does this. Some people can continue with their religion or belief system while accepting that things might alter that view.

[ARTgames]

I would also like the point out by what i meant with the line "And if you do find out then change it. "

I mean change what you knew about if from the past. Don't change what you found out. >_< my bad.

[Jake]

why base owr beliefs of stuff we can never prove when we can do so with things we can prove?

If you want to live in your own world go ahead. I cant stop you. But my personal prefrents would be to believe it something that i can work with and change and grow as we discover. That's just me thoe.

I'm feeling kind of lazy, so I'm not going to address the other points that came up after this post, suffice to say that Lingus's view on views (not a grammatical error) is exactly what I believe.

I wanted to point out that not believing in something because there is no proof is silly. The only reason anyone believes anything is because we have evidence and faith. I have evidence that I will wake up tomorrow because I have woken up every morning before, but I do not have proof. Therefore I have faith based upon evidence that I will indeed wake up. I look at faith as the gap between evidence and proof, and I believe it is necessary in living our lives, otherwise we would need proof for everything and wouldn't believe anything.

My point is that not believing in something simply because of a lack of proof is an illogical way to live. Factors such as faith aren't exclusive to religion, although they are often considered as such because theists tend to use more faith than evidence. One factor is never solely used though, so anyone saying they believe in something purely through evidence (which would also be labeled as proof because there is no faith), or someone saying they believe through faith alone, are expressing their true beliefs incorrectly. The only time in which you can express your belief in something through proof alone is if you know everything, and the only time in which you can express your belief in something through faith alone is if you believe it for absolutely no reason.

[ARTgames]

why base owr beliefs of stuff we can never prove when we can do so with things we can prove?

If you want to live in your own world go ahead. I cant stop you. But my personal prefrents would be to believe it something that i can work with and change and grow as we discover. That's just me thoe.

I'm feeling kind of lazy, so I'm not going to address the other points that came up after this post, suffice to say that Lingus's view on views (not a grammatical error) is exactly what I believe.

I wanted to point out that not believing in something because there is no proof is silly. The only reason anyone believes anything is because we have evidence and faith. I have evidence that I will wake up tomorrow because I have woken up every morning before, but I do not have proof. Therefore I have faith based upon evidence that I will indeed wake up. I look at faith as the gap between evidence and proof, and I believe it is necessary in living our lives, otherwise we would need proof for everything and wouldn't believe anything.

My point is that not believing in something simply because of a lack of proof is an illogical way to live. Factors such as faith aren't exclusive to religion, although they are often considered as such because theists tend to use more faith than evidence. One factor is never solely used though, so anyone saying they believe in something purely through evidence (which would also be labeled as proof because there is no faith), or someone saying they believe through faith alone, are expressing their true beliefs incorrectly. The only time in which you can express your belief in something through proof alone is if you know everything, and the only time in which you can express your belief in something through faith alone is if you believe it for absolutely no reason.

But to clear up something else, i am open to theory of the unknown. That is part of the discovery. You try and find out about it and that will lead you to some kind of discovery. Even if that discovery is that its impossible for you to find out. Make it a fact that you don't know. And if you do find out then change it.

[Jake]

why base owr beliefs of stuff we can never prove when we can do so with things we can prove?

If you want to live in your own world go ahead. I cant stop you. But my personal prefrents would be to believe it something that i can work with and change and grow as we discover. That's just me thoe.

I'm feeling kind of lazy, so I'm not going to address the other points that came up after this post, suffice to say that Lingus's view on views (not a grammatical error) is exactly what I believe.

I wanted to point out that not believing in something because there is no proof is silly. The only reason anyone believes anything is because we have evidence and faith. I have evidence that I will wake up tomorrow because I have woken up every morning before, but I do not have proof. Therefore I have faith based upon evidence that I will indeed wake up. I look at faith as the gap between evidence and proof, and I believe it is necessary in living our lives, otherwise we would need proof for everything and wouldn't believe anything.

My point is that not believing in something simply because of a lack of proof is an illogical way to live. Factors such as faith aren't exclusive to religion, although they are often considered as such because theists tend to use more faith than evidence. One factor is never solely used though, so anyone saying they believe in something purely through evidence (which would also be labeled as proof because there is no faith), or someone saying they believe through faith alone, are expressing their true beliefs incorrectly. The only time in which you can express your belief in something through proof alone is if you know everything, and the only time in which you can express your belief in something through faith alone is if you believe it for absolutely no reason.

But to clear up something else, i am open to theory of the unknown. That is part of the discovery. You try and find out about it and that will lead you to some kind of discovery. Even if that discovery is that its impossible for you to find out. Make it a fact that you don't know. And if you do find out then change it.

I suppose you're off the hook  ;)

Like I said before, I was being partially lazy and didn't really look into the other posts too much. I did read what you said but didn't really think it correlated exactly with what i was saying. Plus, I wanted to post my views on that matter.

[ARTgames]

Its ok. There are people who think in such ways and it would be a good read.