Death.. Then what?

[Forum]

Praying only makes your belief stronger in my opinion. It doesn't make you more guaranteed to get into Heaven, but it makes it stronger, and gives you less chance to develop doubt.

There might not even be a heaven or hell and you might reincarnate  :P

[crozier]

Praying only makes your belief stronger in my opinion. It doesn't make you more guaranteed to get into Heaven, but it makes it stronger, and gives you less chance to develop doubt.

There might not even be a heaven or hell and you might reincarnate  :P

Burn the nonbeleivers!!!
Just kiding.
I think there is a heaven but you can do whatever you like there.
Once you get bored of something you can do something else.
Get bored of boobies and beer,play airsolf for a few years then do something else.
Its heaven you wont run out of things to do.

[Pat]

Umm... You're like how old?

Not really sure what you mean by this. Was it an insult, a question, or a compliment?

I was saying, when you are young death isn't something you're supposed to constantly thing about and fear.

[LeGuy]

Ever heard of reconciliation it's a way of forgiving sins.. I also pray every day dud..

I'm not trying to offend you or anything, but seriously, dude, if you can find a spot in the Bible where it says confessing every thing you've done bad to a priest regularly is the way to purity, then I will stand corrected. Jesus is the way to heaven, the Bible makes that crystal clear. You can't just accept things because your parents or a priest tells you it, go find some backup in God's Word.

[Lucifer]

Look, I say this completely as a concerned friend. I'd rather that anybody not go to hell. So, seriously, go talk to your priest or your parents or somebody and ask them how you can accept Jesus' gift of salvation - it's as easy as praying (and meaning it, of course) a prayer. And if you still have doubts about this "saved by grace" thing, Just read John or Romans in your Bible, and you'll findthere's pretty much no way that you can be good enough to get into heaven.

As much as you may be concerned for us, this thread is for your beliefs about the afterlife, and religion is a very big part of this, but do Not start telling people to go talk to their priests to be "saved".

[Specialboy]

First off, about christian people who try to save people:  I think you are wrong.
That said however, I want to thank you.  Trying to spare someone an eternity of suffering, and send them to a place of eternal happiness is one of the greatest things you can do.  It's a very nice thing to do for anyone, and I want to thank you for your kindness.  However, most internet forums are saturated with people who don;t wish to be saved.  Thank you, but this isn;t really the right place.

Second, When my relatives died, it was a happy thing, because my grandpa had been suffering from both alzheimers and prostate cancer, and any pain medication for the cancer would have accelerated the alzheimers, and treatment for the alzheimers would have been impossible because of drug interactions with the cancer treatment, so when he finally died, it was one of the happiest things that month, because he was no longer stuck in the already dead state he was in.  So I believe death should be a happy thing, because it often releases people.

Third, I believe when you die, there some sort of heaven/hell system, but not plain black and white, rather, several subtle shades of gray.

[Chaos]

And since God is perfect, he won't acccept anyone into his heaven unless somebody else who was completely perfect (Jesus) died for all the imperfect people on the planet so their sins could be forgiven.

Stop.  Hammer time.

Do me a favour.  Mull this over a few times.

Now, please explain to me what logic is being used to jump from point A (God is perfect) to point B (He won't accept anyone into heaven unless somebody perfect dies) in this sentence.  Or from point B (aforementioned) to point C (so imperfect people's sins could be forgiven), for that matter.

Who exactly is making these rules?  I have to imagine that since God is the ultimate being in existence, who is supposed to have created the universe, it would have to be him.  So, in essence, you're telling me God had his own son murdered for shits and giggles?  Cause it's been stated in this topic even that God 'gave up his son so people could go to heaven'.  Why?  Who made that rule?  I can only assume God, since he created the whole bloody universe.  How does a "perfect person's" death absolve all the sinners, anyway?  Couldn't God have just made it the rule that NO ONE'S death absolved all sinners, and kept his friggin' son?  I mean, he's God.  He made the friggin' universe.  Aren't these 'rules' up to him?

Essentially, you're either telling me there is a force greater than God pulling strings, or God killed his son for no reason but to get his kicks.  Either way, I'm not so sure I'd want to go to 'His' heaven at this point... <_<

[LeGuy]

And since God is perfect, he won't acccept anyone into his heaven unless somebody else who was completely perfect (Jesus) died for all the imperfect people on the planet so their sins could be forgiven.

Stop.  Hammer time.

Do me a favour.  Mull this over a few times.

Now, please explain to me what logic is being used to jump from point A (God is perfect) to point B (He won't accept anyone into heaven unless somebody perfect dies) in this sentence.  Or from point B (aforementioned) to point C (so imperfect people's sins could be forgiven), for that matter.

Who exactly is making these rules?  I have to imagine that since God is the ultimate being in existence, who is supposed to have created the universe, it would have to be him.  So, in essence, you're telling me God had his own son murdered for shits and giggles?  Cause it's been stated in this topic even that God 'gave up his son so people could go to heaven'.  Why?  Who made that rule?  I can only assume God, since he created the whole bloody universe.  How does a "perfect person's" death absolve all the sinners, anyway?  Couldn't God have just made it the rule that NO ONE'S death absolved all sinners, and kept his friggin' son?  I mean, he's God.  He made the friggin' universe.  Aren't these 'rules' up to him?

Essentially, you're either telling me there is a force greater than God pulling strings, or God killed his son for no reason but to get his kicks.  Either way, I'm not so sure I'd want to go to 'His' heaven at this point... <_<

Answering all these questions would take a debate, and those are way too difficult. In any case, I was just trying to talk to Forum as two people who believe in the same book.

[LeGuy]

And since God is perfect, he won't acccept anyone into his heaven unless somebody else who was completely perfect (Jesus) died for all the imperfect people on the planet so their sins could be forgiven.

Stop.  Hammer time.

Do me a favour.  Mull this over a few times.

Now, please explain to me what logic is being used to jump from point A (God is perfect) to point B (He won't accept anyone into heaven unless somebody perfect dies) in this sentence.  Or from point B (aforementioned) to point C (so imperfect people's sins could be forgiven), for that matter.

Who exactly is making these rules?  I have to imagine that since God is the ultimate being in existence, who is supposed to have created the universe, it would have to be him.  So, in essence, you're telling me God had his own son murdered for shits and giggles?  Cause it's been stated in this topic even that God 'gave up his son so people could go to heaven'.  Why?  Who made that rule?  I can only assume God, since he created the whole bloody universe.  How does a "perfect person's" death absolve all the sinners, anyway?  Couldn't God have just made it the rule that NO ONE'S death absolved all sinners, and kept his friggin' son?  I mean, he's God.  He made the friggin' universe.  Aren't these 'rules' up to him?

Essentially, you're either telling me there is a force greater than God pulling strings, or God killed his son for no reason but to get his kicks.  Either way, I'm not so sure I'd want to go to 'His' heaven at this point... <_<

Answering all these questions would take a debate, and those are way too difficult to be held on internet forums. In any case, I was just trying to talk to Forum as two people who believe in the same book.

[Mystery]

And since God is perfect, he won't acccept anyone into his heaven unless somebody else who was completely perfect (Jesus) died for all the imperfect people on the planet so their sins could be forgiven.

Stop.  Hammer time.

Do me a favour.  Mull this over a few times.

Now, please explain to me what logic is being used to jump from point A (God is perfect) to point B (He won't accept anyone into heaven unless somebody perfect dies) in this sentence.  Or from point B (aforementioned) to point C (so imperfect people's sins could be forgiven), for that matter.

Who exactly is making these rules?  I have to imagine that since God is the ultimate being in existence, who is supposed to have created the universe, it would have to be him.  So, in essence, you're telling me God had his own son murdered for shits and giggles?  Cause it's been stated in this topic even that God 'gave up his son so people could go to heaven'.  Why?  Who made that rule?  I can only assume God, since he created the whole bloody universe.  How does a "perfect person's" death absolve all the sinners, anyway?  Couldn't God have just made it the rule that NO ONE'S death absolved all sinners, and kept his friggin' son?  I mean, he's God.  He made the friggin' universe.  Aren't these 'rules' up to him?

Essentially, you're either telling me there is a force greater than God pulling strings, or God killed his son for no reason but to get his kicks.  Either way, I'm not so sure I'd want to go to 'His' heaven at this point... <_<

Answering all these questions would take a debate, and those are way too difficult. In any case, I was just trying to talk to Forum as two people who believe in the same book.

Just so we're all clear, I have the exact same view as Chaos. My main presumption of the universe is based around logic, but I respect people for holding onto their beliefs.

LeGuy, having debates on internet forums aren't hard.  :-\ They only become a problem if they derail the topic or become an A and B conversation that could be handled better with PMs. Also, you double-posted...

[Mr Pwnage]

And since God is perfect, he won't acccept anyone into his heaven unless somebody else who was completely perfect (Jesus) died for all the imperfect people on the planet so their sins could be forgiven.

Stop.  Hammer time.

Do me a favour.  Mull this over a few times.

Now, please explain to me what logic is being used to jump from point A (God is perfect) to point B (He won't accept anyone into heaven unless somebody perfect dies) in this sentence.  Or from point B (aforementioned) to point C (so imperfect people's sins could be forgiven), for that matter.

Who exactly is making these rules?  I have to imagine that since God is the ultimate being in existence, who is supposed to have created the universe, it would have to be him.  So, in essence, you're telling me God had his own son murdered for shits and giggles?  Cause it's been stated in this topic even that God 'gave up his son so people could go to heaven'.  Why?  Who made that rule?  I can only assume God, since he created the whole bloody universe.  How does a "perfect person's" death absolve all the sinners, anyway?  Couldn't God have just made it the rule that NO ONE'S death absolved all sinners, and kept his friggin' son?  I mean, he's God.  He made the friggin' universe.  Aren't these 'rules' up to him?

Essentially, you're either telling me there is a force greater than God pulling strings, or God killed his son for no reason but to get his kicks.  Either way, I'm not so sure I'd want to go to 'His' heaven at this point... <_<

+Karma for successfully explaining, using examples, just how illogical all these biblical stories are, as I have the exact same opinion.

[Lucifer]

Debates of this sort work better on forums, as people have as much time as they need to think through their opinions. In real life people tend to get pissed off too easily, and the argument goes around in circles.

[Chaos]

Don't get me wrong, I have no intention of being hostile, but those particular logical fallacies jumped out at me, and I wanted to address them in case I'm missing something here.  I mean, I just don't see how you're jumping from "SINCE God is perfect" to "he won't accept anyone [...]" etc.  That previous statement doesn't logically support the following statement in any way I can see.  What part of God 'being perfect' makes him choose to "not accept people into heaven [...]" etc.?

As I also said in the other post, I don't understand why a "perfect person" 'sacrificing' him/herself would suddenly absolve everyone else?  Who else other than God made that rule, and why would God make a rule that would require his son to die?  If he could have kept his son alive, but chose not to, it's not really much of a sacrifice then, is it? 

And considering God created humans in the first place, how come he made them 'sin-able' in the first place?  Why would a perfect God make a knowledge giving tree, and plop it down in the middle of the garden, then go "DON'T TOUCH THIS".  Hell, the fact that humans disobeyed and touched it shows they already had sin in the first place <_<  And don't gimme that Eve was persuaded by the snake, or however the story goes.  The snake was created by God, which means it shouldn't have 'sin' either.  Because, you know, it was made by someone who was PERFECT.  Since when is knowledge 'sinful', anyway?  God is all knowing, and he's supposedly the ultimate good.  Clearly knowledge didn't mess HIM up.  And since humans are made 'in God's image', it would be assumed that they should also be perfect, anyway.   ???

Sorry.  My train of thought became a run-away.  Either way, feel free to provide me some answers to some or all of these questions, cause I'm at a loss at this point.  And that's an invitation to anyone.  I set up the ball, feel free to grab and run with it. 

[Mr Pwnage]

Well, if you think about it...assuming there IS a God, we are all just one big puppet show. Hell, for all I know, he's controlling me to type this right now. I mean, if god is out there creating people, he can make them good or bad. What if we are just entertainment, and he's chilling back watching all the shit that goes on with a bag of popcorn? Even worse, what if we are like a sandbox? Meaning he's just creating shit to see what happens, and when he gets bored with it, he deletes it all....I mean if you think about it...extincion and all...that makes sense. I mean, even thinking about the whole supernatural idea is just so far fetched and questionable I can't even start to think, in my mortal mind, how anything like that can be real. Maybe it's just cause I am a "have to see it to believe it person", and a man of sceince...soley powered by the logical and the physically possible. That isn't to say I'm not open to ideas, but they have to be a little bit more concrete than all the religious stuff I hear today.
The only real reason religion pisses me off in the first place is because it gives fanatics and excuse to start killing people for completely irrational reasons. Though I do like that most religions teach good morals.
When I think of it all though, I really don't have an opinion. My mind just gets so caught up in it all, it gets to be so confusing, I just find it easier not to care, and live my life to the fullest regardless of what happens in the end, and I hope someday the majority of the world can put their differences aside and do the same.

[Cactuscat222]

First off, LeGuy was solely speaking to Forum, because Forum made it clear they were under the same religion.

Seond, like I said, I hate the "I only believe in the purely logical" stuff. Life itself is illogical, so there is no comprehension unless you take anything or everything relating to the creation of life and death with a grain of salt. There is some stuff that just won't/can't be explained.

Additionally, the snake in the Adam and Eve story, correct me if I'm wrong, was the devil. I've always been under the impression that God and the Devil were separate entities, in the sense that God did not make the Devil, they were both created at the same time.