Death.. Then what?

[Cactuscat222]

Its only wrong to YOU.

You do NOT define what is right or wrong for ANYBODY but yourself.

[ARTgames]

People live just fine not believing in the same thing. Thus proving that what ever religion your practicing now is not making you live any better than any one else because you cant prove one opinion is better than another.

Most of this religion seems like an insurance to the after life also. Something we really know nothing about. Ill leave that there.

Just follow the laws and don't do bad thing and we will all be ok.

(note)
Now i have been working on this post for a long time. So it might seem outdated to these new posts i have not red yet

[Jake]

I don't feel like arguing with anyone, so I'm simply going to point things out as I see them.

-Slavery in the days of the Israelites is not the same as the slavery we have come to know.
-Slavery is not a sin, despite what Mystery has pointed out.
-God does not condone slavery, but makes laws regarding it.
-Declaring what or whatnot makes God perfect is illogical. If you believe in the concept of God, it is enough evidence to override statements regarding the fallacies of God's perfect nature because his perfect nature allows him to see above the logic of our own. If he can see above our logic, then using logic to dispute his perfectness is invalid. It's a simple argument to dispel beliefs of people who try to argue what God can and not do while retaining his omnipotence. While this does not provide evidence (in my opinion), of a God. It instead provides evidence of God's nature and retaining his omnipotence if he does exist.
-Statements that the bible is garbage are pretty silly.

Just follow the laws and don't do bad thing and we will all be ok.

Didn't realize how simple this key concept of life is. Follow societies laws and everything will be alright. Good thing I don't live in Africa, otherwise I'd have to eat my grandpa to be alright...

[Chaos]

No, I'm not arguing against you, I'm making a point.

Blah blah blah, God can't do whatever he wants cause he's omnipowerful, because you completely side-stepped my entire post.  Either the bible is God's word, or it is not, whatever stupid spin you want to try to apply to it.  So is it the word of God, or is it not?  You're !@#$ed no matter which direction you try to argue.

Word of God?  Then we're all !@#$ed, no matter who you are, cause no one is following the original writings.

Not word of God?  Then the Christian religion is !@#$ed, cause they suddenly have no authority to back themselves with.

Take your pick.

And no, Jake.  God made Logic.  I highly doubt he'd go make an entire UNIVERSE based of rules, and yet follow absolutely none.  Hell, he "made humans in his own image", if not physically, definitely mentally.  God would have created and thus follows the rules of logic.  If he didn't, the rules of logic would be entirely different to what they are.  Create what you know, you know?

Also, it is 3:30 am, and while I am not entirely sober, I'm pretty damn sure my argument is logically sound.  If not, I'll revise tomorrow...

How's this:  "Stop following a !@#$ing story book and build your own moral code, you lazy pricks."

EDIT:  Just to clarify, none of this post, particularly the last line, is directed at anyone in particular beyond the few places where I actually specified people.

[Torch]

No, I'm not arguing against you, I'm making a point.

Blah blah blah, God can't do whatever he wants cause he's omnipowerful, because you completely side-stepped my entire post.  Either the bible is God's word, or it is not, whatever stupid spin you want to try to apply to it.  So is it the word of God, or is it not?  You're !@#$ed no matter which direction you try to argue.

Word of God?  Then we're all !@#$ed, no matter who you are, cause no one is following the original writings.

Not word of God?  Then the Christian religion is !@#$ed, cause they suddenly have no authority to back themselves with.

Take your pick.

And no, Jake.  God made Logic.  I highly doubt he'd go make an entire UNIVERSE based of rules, and yet follow absolutely none.  Hell, he "made humans in his own image", if not physically, definitely mentally.  God would have created and thus follows the rules of logic.  If he didn't, the rules of logic would be entirely different to what they are.  Create what you know, you know?

Also, it is 3:30 am, and while I am not entirely sober, I'm pretty damn sure my argument is logically sound.  If not, I'll revise tomorrow...

How's this:  "Stop following a !@#$ing story book and build your own moral code, you lazy pricks."

Definitely +karma worthy. Even as a drunken rant, this post is still more logically sound than most of the other comments in this topic.

EDIT: Apparently, you can't give karma when you start off.

[Jake]

No, I'm not arguing against you, I'm making a point.

Blah blah blah, God can't do whatever he wants cause he's omnipowerful, because you completely side-stepped my entire post.  Either the bible is God's word, or it is not, whatever stupid spin you want to try to apply to it.  So is it the word of God, or is it not?  You're !@#$ed no matter which direction you try to argue.

Word of God?  Then we're all !@#$ed, no matter who you are, cause no one is following the original writings.

Not word of God?  Then the Christian religion is !@#$ed, cause they suddenly have no authority to back themselves with.

Take your pick.

And no, Jake.  God made Logic.  I highly doubt he'd go make an entire UNIVERSE based of rules, and yet follow absolutely none.  Hell, he "made humans in his own image", if not physically, definitely mentally.  God would have created and thus follows the rules of logic.  If he didn't, the rules of logic would be entirely different to what they are.  Create what you know, you know?

Also, it is 3:30 am, and while I am not entirely sober, I'm pretty damn sure my argument is logically sound.  If not, I'll revise tomorrow...

How's this:  "Stop following a !@#$ing story book and build your own moral code, you lazy pricks."

EDIT:  Just to clarify, none of this post, particularly the last line, is directed at anyone in particular beyond the few places where I actually specified people.

You're jumping to a very quick conclusion, so let me stop you right there. People are following the original writings of the bible. According to Christianity, it is God's word. Now, since I've proven what you said wrong, what is your argument? You're throwing out general terms about God betraying his own logic, and I have seen none of that. Are you saying that since God set laws for slavery, he is betraying logic he created? Please be more specific. Something that you should also take into consideration is the idea that just because your logic doesn't agree with God's, doesn't mean God is side-stepping logic.

Also, your condescending attitude is really starting to annoying me, but I'm trying hard to not let it show in my argument. Stabs at people's beliefs are not ok in my book, whether you believe them to be right or wrong. You clearly need to sort your facts some more before you bring down the foundation of Christianity and their beliefs. And that goes for you too Torch.

[Chaos]

"Now, since I've proven what you said wrong, what is your argument?"

Generally speaking, that is said after you've actually proved something.

"Revision" can not coexist with "Original".  They are, by the very definition, completely exclusive.  Considering the bible has received revisions (something that would be completely unnecessary, because God is perfect, therefore his word is, as well), it is not the original writings.  Do you dispute this?


Secondly, exactly what argument are you trying to make?  Please clarify for me: WHO exactly are you stating created the bible?  Where did this book come from?  


EDIT:  You know what, scratch that.  I'm pulling out.  I've made my points more than clear and straightforward throughout this topic, and until someone decides to start refuting instead of ignoring, I have no desire to continue talking in a circle.  Peace.

[Torch]

Also, your condescending attitude is really starting to annoying me, but I'm trying hard to not let it show in my argument. Stabs at people's beliefs are not ok in my book, whether you believe them to be right or wrong. You clearly need to sort your facts some more before you bring down the foundation of Christianity and their beliefs. And that goes for you too Torch.

While his post was worded in a way that was meant to be insulting towards Christians, the logic in his post it still there. The new testament is so outdated that many of it's teachings are impractical or socially frowned upon today. If noone is following these teachings, then noone is following the will of god. This us unless the bible is not the will of god, in which case Christianity (which is based on the bible) is not the will of god.

[Jake]

"Now, since I've proven what you said wrong, what is your argument?"

Generally speaking, that is said after you've actually proved something.

"Revision" can not coexist with "Original".  They are, by the very definition, completely exclusive.  Considering the bible has received revisions (something that would be completely unnecessary, because God is perfect, therefore his word is, as well), it is not the original writings.  Do you dispute this?


Secondly, exactly what argument are you trying to make?  Please clarify for me: WHO exactly are you stating created the bible?  Where did this book come from?  


EDIT:  You know what, scratch that.  I'm pulling out.  I've made my points more than clear and straightforward throughout this topic, and until someone decides to start refuting instead of ignoring, I have no desire to continue talking in a circle.  Peace.

Here's where the confusion is coming on... Is a revision the same as a translation in your eyes or not? I need to know that info before continuing because we're on two separate pages here.

You say that God's word is not God's word if it is revised and I would agree. If somebody studies a bible that is translated but not revised, and the message is still the same, can it not be God's original teachings?

[Mr Pwnage]

"Now, since I've proven what you said wrong, what is your argument?"

Generally speaking, that is said after you've actually proved something.

"Revision" can not coexist with "Original".  They are, by the very definition, completely exclusive.  Considering the bible has received revisions (something that would be completely unnecessary, because God is perfect, therefore his word is, as well), it is not the original writings.  Do you dispute this?


Secondly, exactly what argument are you trying to make?  Please clarify for me: WHO exactly are you stating created the bible?  Where did this book come from?  


EDIT:  You know what, scratch that.  I'm pulling out.  I've made my points more than clear and straightforward throughout this topic, and until someone decides to start refuting instead of ignoring, I have no desire to continue talking in a circle.  Peace.

Here's where the confusion is coming on... Is a revision the same as a translation in your eyes or not? I need to know that info before continuing because we're on two separate pages here.

You say that God's word is not God's word if it is revised and I would agree. If somebody studies a bible that is translated but not revised, and the message is still the same, can it not be God's original teachings?

I just want to point out, historically speaking...And this specifically relates to the Renaissance times, but most likely in other Eras as well... These so called translations of the bible...were primarily done by VERY CORRUPT popes. I guess you would have to read the books I did to fully grasp what I mean, but I'll try to explain. Back in the day, pretty much all the power was in the churches, and the popes would always use this to their advantage, holding religion over peoples heads. It even got to the point where you could "pay" your sin off using money. Now, this was also the same period of time when the Bible was translated and written somewhat into what we know it to be today. Who was translating these texts? The corrupt popes of the Era, that's who. So it is VERY likely much of the text was manipulated to a point where very little is God's word, though it may be written in a way to sound such. Honestly though, I can't say this is to be fact, but with my knowledge on the matter I can only assume that this might play a big role in the Bibles actual accuracy. I could go on, but I think I've gotten across my point, feel free to let me know if you want me to elaborate though.

[ARTgames]

I think we can all agree that we really don't know what happens after death.

[Mystery]

For [Censor]'s sake, I thought I made it clear I didn't want this to go on. It's slowly turning into flaming, as all religious debates do eventually because all sides are too stubborn to cave in.

I don't feel like arguing with anyone, so I'm simply going to point things out as I see them.

I REALLY don't feel like arguing either. I WAS planning to rant with a gigantic post about 'why the [Censor] is slavery not a sin' and 'Cactus, if you cannot define what's wrong for others, then why the hell does God impose just that onto others to determine fate for eternity' and 'why can't you people see the logic Chaos and me are showing you' and all that other stuff, but I'm frankly not in the damn mood.

I think we can all agree that we really don't know what happens after death.

THIS. No matter what we can bring to the table, WE DON'T KNOW UNTIL WE DIE. I personally choose to believe in science because it makes complete sense to me and doesn't offer false promises. This topic is really past its prime and should probably be left to die(haha, bad pun).

I might have actually debated if I felt better, but I have too much crap to contend with right now.

[Chaos]

@Jake:  We already covered this over texts, but I figured I'd post it here.

Jake: "By the way.  In your argument, were you considering translations of the bible to be revisions"

Me: "No, though there is obviously going to be some translation errors, that really is irrelevant to my point, which is making actual intentional changes to the bible."

However, Mr. Pwnage brings up another point.  Translations are done by human beings.  They can very easily be said to say whatever the translator wants, if they so desired.  Not that I'm suggesting that has happened, but it is something to keep in mind.

@Torch:  Incidentally, it wasn't written entirely with intent to be offensive, it just happened to be 3:30 in the morning and I just finished a night of drinking with my friends, and I tend to be a bit more blunt (if that is possible) in that state, heh.

@ART:  Yes, I think we can all agree to that.  lol

[Cactuscat222]

For [Censor]'s sake, I thought I made it clear I didn't want this to go on. It's slowly turning into flaming, as all religious debates do eventually because all sides are too stubborn to cave in.

I don't feel like arguing with anyone, so I'm simply going to point things out as I see them.

I REALLY don't feel like arguing either. I WAS planning to rant with a gigantic post about 'why the [Censor] is slavery not a sin' and 'Cactus, if you cannot define what's wrong for others, then why the hell does God impose just that onto others to determine fate for eternity' and 'why can't you people see the logic Chaos and me are showing you' and all that other stuff, but I'm frankly not in the damn mood.

I think we can all agree that we really don't know what happens after death.

THIS. No matter what we can bring to the table, WE DON'T KNOW UNTIL WE DIE. I personally choose to believe in science because it makes complete sense to me and doesn't offer false promises. This topic is really past its prime and should probably be left to die(haha, bad pun).

I might have actually debated if I felt better, but I have too much crap to contend with right now.

You don't decide whether or not a debate goes on...

Plus you contradict yourself "WE DON'T KNOW UNTIL WE DIE" and "...and doesn't offer false promises." So you agree we know nothing, but then state flat out heaven/whatever is a 'false promise' and not real?

Slavery is wrong to us, as a people. Maybe in the 'perfection' of God, slavery is not a sin. Jake brought up a good point, whereas what is said in the bible is ONLY LAWS regarding it, not saying "you must have slaves or else you are going to hell!". No! Its only saying how to handle slavery! We've abolished it, so those laws no longer apply. Case proven. The bible isn't some 'all evil' book, as that author tried to crudely make it.

I, personally, am huge into logic. I've been having massive debates lately with people in regards to religion and other things (though recently I decided to ween off, because most of the people are atheist and have absolutely no respect for those with religion)... but what you have to understand is something I said earlier: Science is based on Logic, Religion is based on Faith. You can't use Logic to try and disprove Religion, because fundamentally it doesn't use logic. Whereas, Religion tries to use Faith to debunk Science, but that doesn't work because Science is fundamentally based on logic. It just doesn't work.

I see your 'logic' that you are trying to point out to us, but I don't agree with it.

[ARTgames]

Cactuscat222 explain what are your reason for believe that religion?