Chaos's Questions #1 - Physical 'piracy'

[Seifer]

I'd just copy a bunch of hot women and have a harem. Maybe pimp them out too? I mean profit is profit.

As for the good or evil debate, I think that society would err on the side of Good. Most murders, wars and so on are untimately fought over some resource, wealth or item. If you could theoretically always have everything you need, most of the reasons for murder are gone. Countries have no real reason to go to war. People have no reason to mug one another and so on. The only people who would still kill are those malicious enough to kill simply because they enjoy killing, and I would imagine those people are far and few between.

[Lingus]

What I think is interesting is that this may not be too far from reality. They currently have 3D printers that "print" an object in 3 dimensions out of various different substances. You can, right now, print out somewhat complex machines. Further down the road, this might allow someone to print out small to medium sized electronic devices.

The interesting thing comes in when you realize that people will no longer be purchasing products, but purchasing the schematics for those products and "printing" the product in their own home. So if you look at it that way, pirating will actually provide people with physical items. This changes the whole thing about copying an item off a shelf and stealing it from a hypothetical debate, to a real debate (sorry if I'm jumping back to the other thread here).

Relating that back to this topic, if we had a hypothetical machine that can copy objects (rather than requiring schematics) now you could get into a debate about whether it is acceptable (moraly or otherwise) to copy someone else's objects without their permission. Or, even copying an object without the permission of the original maker of the object (if the object is man-made).

Certainly, there would immediately be laws put in place prohibiting copying someone else's body without their permission. People with desirable bodies, or body parts, would probably become rich selling the rights to copy their body and/or body parts.

With copyright laws the way they are now, it would be illegal to copy an object made by someone without their expressed written permission. It's also interesting to think about what industries this would hit. Physical stores where you walk in to buy objects would eventually no longer exist.

[Mr Pwnage]

Sex toy companies would be furious...just and get one model and...the possibilities would be endless!

On a more series note, this kind of invention would ruin the need for society as we know it. Money is a material item. There would be no way to have common currency because this effectively makes all forms of matter pretty much devoid of value. It would probably lead to utter chaos and the death of the human race. So on the philosophical side of your question, hell yeah I would partake in it!

[DarkTrinity]

What I think is interesting is that this may not be too far from reality. They currently have 3D printers that "print" an object in 3 dimensions out of various different substances. You can, right now, print out somewhat complex machines. Further down the road, this might allow someone to print out small to medium sized electronic devices.

The interesting thing comes in when you realize that people will no longer be purchasing products, but purchasing the schematics for those products and "printing" the product in their own home. So if you look at it that way, pirating will actually provide people with physical items. This changes the whole thing about copying an item off a shelf and stealing it from a hypothetical debate, to a real debate (sorry if I'm jumping back to the other thread here).

Relating that back to this topic, if we had a hypothetical machine that can copy objects (rather than requiring schematics) now you could get into a debate about whether it is acceptable (moraly or otherwise) to copy someone else's objects without their permission. Or, even copying an object without the permission of the original maker of the object (if the object is man-made).

Certainly, there would immediately be laws put in place prohibiting copying someone else's body without their permission. People with desirable bodies, or body parts, would probably become rich selling the rights to copy their body and/or body parts.

With copyright laws the way they are now, it would be illegal to copy an object made by someone without their expressed written permission. It's also interesting to think about what industries this would hit. Physical stores where you walk in to buy objects would eventually no longer exist.

We have one of those at our school actually and I watched it in action, It's pretty sweet. It only makes things out of plastic though. And it took like a good 11 hours to print out a 3 inch cube. While that could improve someday, it's kind of inefficient. Oh, we also have one that prints 3D ceramic too. (granted some of the things printed are molds to cast bronze objects or w/e). But still, you have to buy the machine and the plastic to feed into the machine, plus the resin to hold up free-standing parts.

[Loganvz123]

I guess the phrase "Everyone is unique." would not exist for famous and renowned people, eh?

[Jake]

I truly think the human race would be wiped out very soon after creating technology like this. The overwhelming possibility for a single individual to do serious amounts of harm is too hard to look past. Even if the majority of people only want to do good, there will always be the bad eggs that just want to watch the world burn. Imagine terrorists duplicating bombs, themselves, weapons, nuclear material, etc. I think it's important to realize that with all the good things technology brings, it can also be used for eviiiiiilllll.

Yes, most wars are fought over tangible things, but just as many wars are fought over ideas. Ideas such as religion would, in my opinion, become even more popular then they are now, considering people will grow very tired of their material lifestyles and look elsewhere for satisfaction. If I had the ability to basically create anything I wanted, physical objects would lose their appeal to me over time. Wars would continue to be fought over stupid shit, and even more people will die because their wouldn't be a weapon budget.

[Loganvz123]

And their would always be that cunt copying Justin Bieber and Rebecca Black. >.<

[Yankyal]

Rebecca Black. >.<

As long as we all get one, I wouldn't mind.

No but seriously, this invention would end the world. If it didn't, then I'd definitely pirate the shit out of everything. There would be no more need for money so there's no reason for people to want copyrights of their product.

Even if there somehow was still a need for money, I'd pirate it. Even if I was the only person on earth who had the machine, I'd pirate. No !@#$s given.

I think #2 should be a machine that steals the product from someone else, so that they no longer have it, instead of just copying. That would bring in all these moral questions and such.

[Lingus]

What I think is interesting is that this may not be too far from reality. They currently have 3D printers that "print" an object in 3 dimensions out of various different substances. You can, right now, print out somewhat complex machines. Further down the road, this might allow someone to print out small to medium sized electronic devices.

The interesting thing comes in when you realize that people will no longer be purchasing products, but purchasing the schematics for those products and "printing" the product in their own home. So if you look at it that way, pirating will actually provide people with physical items. This changes the whole thing about copying an item off a shelf and stealing it from a hypothetical debate, to a real debate (sorry if I'm jumping back to the other thread here).

Relating that back to this topic, if we had a hypothetical machine that can copy objects (rather than requiring schematics) now you could get into a debate about whether it is acceptable (moraly or otherwise) to copy someone else's objects without their permission. Or, even copying an object without the permission of the original maker of the object (if the object is man-made).

Certainly, there would immediately be laws put in place prohibiting copying someone else's body without their permission. People with desirable bodies, or body parts, would probably become rich selling the rights to copy their body and/or body parts.

With copyright laws the way they are now, it would be illegal to copy an object made by someone without their expressed written permission. It's also interesting to think about what industries this would hit. Physical stores where you walk in to buy objects would eventually no longer exist.

We have one of those at our school actually and I watched it in action, It's pretty sweet. It only makes things out of plastic though. And it took like a good 11 hours to print out a 3 inch cube. While that could improve someday, it's kind of inefficient. Oh, we also have one that prints 3D ceramic too. (granted some of the things printed are molds to cast bronze objects or w/e). But still, you have to buy the machine and the plastic to feed into the machine, plus the resin to hold up free-standing parts.

True. I was just looking into the future a bit of how that technology could evolve. It's very likely that in 30 years (maybe less?) or so we'll have something that can print things like smart phones. Of course, it won't be cheap at first, but eventually it will be a common household appliance. It's interesting to think how that will play out.

[ARTgames]

not sure if bate. will nibble.

I truly think the human race would be wiped out very soon after creating technology like this. The overwhelming possibility for a single individual to do serious amounts of harm is too hard to look past. Even if the majority of people only want to do good, there will always be the bad eggs that just want to watch the world burn. Imagine terrorists duplicating bombs, themselves, weapons, nuclear material, etc. I think it's important to realize that with all the good things technology brings, it can also be used for eviiiiiilllll.

I think some people will not because of mutual assured destruction or just because they are nice and don't want to hurt people. And for people who want to see the world burn we could duplicate are defenses, make new planets, etc. I'm basically saying i feel it would befit any side to about equal.

If I had the ability to basically create anything I wanted, physical objects would lose their appeal to me over time.

I would say maybe not to everyone but I understand that it would to a lot of people take some of the value to people. But I have a feeling that the interest would move into what could we do with those objects and what new objects can we invent. Kinda like how we deal with information now.

[Jake]

not sure if bate. will nibble.

I truly think the human race would be wiped out very soon after creating technology like this. The overwhelming possibility for a single individual to do serious amounts of harm is too hard to look past. Even if the majority of people only want to do good, there will always be the bad eggs that just want to watch the world burn. Imagine terrorists duplicating bombs, themselves, weapons, nuclear material, etc. I think it's important to realize that with all the good things technology brings, it can also be used for eviiiiiilllll.

I think some people will not because of mutual assured destruction or just because they are nice and don't want to hurt people. And for people who want to see the world burn we could duplicate are defenses, make new planets, etc. I'm basically saying i feel it would befit any side to about equal.

Unfortunately, I don't think it would balance out. If you want to go with the theory that we could duplicate planets... well, then it would only take 1 person to duplicate a large enough mass to throw our entire planet out of it's orbit with the sun. Or duplicate a bunch of plutonium to create enough nukes to blow up the world, or whatever. If a terrorist got their hands on a dirty bomb, they could make as many duplicates as they want from that. Don't forget there is also the potential of people making huge mistakes in duplicating objects, even if they mean to do good. Say, for example, we start duplicating huge land masses and eventually start effing up the climate of the earth, or it's orbit, etc. Basically, every time new technology comes out, you HAVE to assume the worst, because history has shown that technology, while usually being used for good, can be used to inflict a lot of damage in the world. It was just a few decades ago that our world almost ended because of our inability to control the technology WE created. Why would we assume that wouldn't happen again if newer technology is even more dangerous and accessible than ever before? Honestly, it's impossible to know what the hell would happen, not to mention there's a huge amount of missing factors. For example, is mass created or just converted? How long does it take to duplicate large objects? How easy is it to obtain a duplicator? Either way, I don't have high hopes for humanity if something like that ever arises.

If I had the ability to basically create anything I wanted, physical objects would lose their appeal to me over time.

I would say maybe not to everyone but I understand that it would to a lot of people take some of the value to people. But I have a feeling that the interest would move into what could we do with those objects and what new objects can we invent. Kinda like how we deal with information now.

Oh yeah, no doubt. Chaos and I were debating this last night, and we agreed that the world would move more towards creative endeavors, rather than people living simply to to acquire new things.

[Mystery]

If there existed such a type of technology, I would also assume there would exist a mechanism for manipulating matter at the subatomic level to form a given object(like how we can manipulate pixels in an art program as well as performing other complex operations), as that is just a more complex extension of the technology, and you'd already have to have such precise manipulation to physically copy objects.

In which case I could easily see a enormous jump in technology available from the already highly-advanced library of knowledge we'd have to have to make those things in the first place.

The turn humankind would take, I presume, would then matter on who did WHAT first with everything available. I could see matter to energy conversions becoming possible and easily controlled(e.g. converting organic matter into electricity still 'encoded' with the means to convert back), I could also see somebody gaining the means of making a massive doomsday machine.

Basically, an enormous number of options open up. I could see virtual universes of sorts being made, powered by gates and mechanisms at the atomic and possibly subatomic level. In which case so many things could happen that even with the menagerie of things available to everyone, I don't think people will get bored with it anytime soon.

I doubt piracy would be an issue anymore since you could create anything given you just had enough of the particles you needed as well as enough energy.

Even though I tend to always want to look at the worst possible outcome of something, I would think that if enough time was put into this, solely because of what a big deal it would be in the scientific community(hopefully modern politics will be defunct), I think we would be careful enough to prevent it from at least completely eradicating large portions of this side of the universe.

..although I am fully aware of humanity's bad apples.

[ARTgames]

not sure if bate. will nibble.

I truly think the human race would be wiped out very soon after creating technology like this. The overwhelming possibility for a single individual to do serious amounts of harm is too hard to look past. Even if the majority of people only want to do good, there will always be the bad eggs that just want to watch the world burn. Imagine terrorists duplicating bombs, themselves, weapons, nuclear material, etc. I think it's important to realize that with all the good things technology brings, it can also be used for eviiiiiilllll.

I think some people will not because of mutual assured destruction or just because they are nice and don't want to hurt people. And for people who want to see the world burn we could duplicate are defenses, make new planets, etc. I'm basically saying i feel it would befit any side to about equal.

Unfortunately, I don't think it would balance out. If you want to go with the theory that we could duplicate planets... well, then it would only take 1 person to duplicate a large enough mass to throw our entire planet out of it's orbit with the sun. Or duplicate a bunch of plutonium to create enough nukes to blow up the world, or whatever. If a terrorist got their hands on a dirty bomb, they could make as many duplicates as they want from that. Don't forget there is also the potential of people making huge mistakes in duplicating objects, even if they mean to do good. Say, for example, we start duplicating huge land masses and eventually start effing up the climate of the earth, or it's orbit, etc. Basically, every time new technology comes out, you HAVE to assume the worst, because history has shown that technology, while usually being used for good, can be used to inflict a lot of damage in the world. It was just a few decades ago that our world almost ended because of our inability to control the technology WE created. Why would we assume that wouldn't happen again if newer technology is even more dangerous and accessible than ever before? Honestly, it's impossible to know what the hell would happen, not to mention there's a huge amount of missing factors. For example, is mass created or just converted? How long does it take to duplicate large objects? How easy is it to obtain a duplicator? Either way, I don't have high hopes for humanity if something like that ever arises.

Well its kinda hard to know what worst is because what that word worst means is different for different people. To the terrorist it would be awesome. And who's to judge bad or good when people are not around anyway?

Non the less its like we are going just going "well infinity" and your like "infinity +1". Lets say a terrorist blows up the whole galaxy. Well lets just duplicate a million galaxy's like the one we have now. Well then what if... etc. Chaos left out its limitations at first, so im taking it as far as it can go. Now i'm assuming this box can make anything at any time that any one can use.  As I said I think it really pans out to all sides no matter which one you think is good or bad since we can just make as many counter's as attacks and likewise.

But I agree that if we had limitations it would be different than this like what you said at the end of the post.

[Jake]

not sure if bate. will nibble.

I truly think the human race would be wiped out very soon after creating technology like this. The overwhelming possibility for a single individual to do serious amounts of harm is too hard to look past. Even if the majority of people only want to do good, there will always be the bad eggs that just want to watch the world burn. Imagine terrorists duplicating bombs, themselves, weapons, nuclear material, etc. I think it's important to realize that with all the good things technology brings, it can also be used for eviiiiiilllll.

I think some people will not because of mutual assured destruction or just because they are nice and don't want to hurt people. And for people who want to see the world burn we could duplicate are defenses, make new planets, etc. I'm basically saying i feel it would befit any side to about equal.

Unfortunately, I don't think it would balance out. If you want to go with the theory that we could duplicate planets... well, then it would only take 1 person to duplicate a large enough mass to throw our entire planet out of it's orbit with the sun. Or duplicate a bunch of plutonium to create enough nukes to blow up the world, or whatever. If a terrorist got their hands on a dirty bomb, they could make as many duplicates as they want from that. Don't forget there is also the potential of people making huge mistakes in duplicating objects, even if they mean to do good. Say, for example, we start duplicating huge land masses and eventually start effing up the climate of the earth, or it's orbit, etc. Basically, every time new technology comes out, you HAVE to assume the worst, because history has shown that technology, while usually being used for good, can be used to inflict a lot of damage in the world. It was just a few decades ago that our world almost ended because of our inability to control the technology WE created. Why would we assume that wouldn't happen again if newer technology is even more dangerous and accessible than ever before? Honestly, it's impossible to know what the hell would happen, not to mention there's a huge amount of missing factors. For example, is mass created or just converted? How long does it take to duplicate large objects? How easy is it to obtain a duplicator? Either way, I don't have high hopes for humanity if something like that ever arises.

Well its kinda hard to know what worst is because what that word worst means is different for different people. To the terrorist it would be awesome. And who's to judge bad or good when people are not around anyway?

Non the less its like we are going just going "well infinity" and your like "infinity +1". Lets say a terrorist blows up the whole galaxy. Well lets just duplicate a million galaxy's like the one we have now. Well then what if... etc. Chaos left out its limitations at first, so im taking it as far as it can go. Now i'm assuming this box can make anything at any time that any one can use.  As I said I think it really pans out to all sides no matter which one you think is good or bad since we can just make as many counter's as attacks and likewise.

But I agree that if we had limitations it would be different than this like what you said at the end of the post.

Lets not turn this into a conversation about subjective morality. I'm simply saying that according to my own view of good and bad, it would be horrible if humanity was destroyed, and I wouldn't be surprised if most people agreed. If somebody destroys the galaxy, there's no one upping them, because we're all dead already. Nuclear weapons cannot defend you once somebody starts firing them AT you. Your both dead. There's no one upping each other anymore.

[ARTgames]

Well I bought up morality just to state why we should not do that. But I will stay away form it to not get off topic. But I think we need more limitations on that this box is. I am taking this too extrema and judging your post off what I think this box can do and I will say that's not right. sorry about that Jake. 

But if this device was something that was like a box that changed matter to what you want and it was a some what limited use I can see how it could fall into the wrong hands and end up blowing up the world. And if its the goal to all live that you want to do (which i agree with) than that would be indeed a really bad thing.