Super Smash Bros.

[RayRay]

Several of us have played this series for a long time. Some of us have mentioned Smash Bros in various topics. Many people who play this currently like to do occasional matches with their siblings or friends, and others still play nonstop.

I'm surprised a topic hasn't came up yet. The 4th installment (to those who do not know, there have been 3 releases up to this post) is said to be announced on the 3DS and the Wii U. The games are spectacular in their fighting style and have very high replay value. They are all published by Nintendo and made by HAL Technologies. You must raise your opponents' percentages by attacking, which will make them fly farther from a strong attack, and then try to make them go off the screen. In regular matches, there is a timer, and sending an opponent off the screen gains you a point which makes the opponent respawn with one less point. In stock matches, you fight with a fixed number of respawns. Last one standing wins. In coin matches, there is a timer once more, and you must attack to get more coins. Eliminating an opponent halves his/her money. There is also a stamina mode where you fight to your death. Knockback does not occur. The original was published for the N64, Melee was published for the GCN, and Brawl was published for the Wii. There are some distant publication dates with each of the games. Brawl has 35 characters and, unlike the other games, a Stage Builder where you can make your own stages.

Those who have played the game can illustrate their best character(s) and his/her tactics. I myself like to play Lucas the most. His PSI magnet pushes away others when I need some landing space. Plus his tree branch is very useful since it reflects projectiles. I also play Marth, where I like to use his combo attack and A attacks. I do counter sometimes with him, but I don't use it often to not be too predictable. Captain Falcon is usually a character I use that makes me yell a lot for some weird reason. (Falcon PUUUNCH!!1) Occasionally I use Pit and Ice Climbers.

There are some interesting but sometimes tricky glitches I found in this game. One is the Jigglypuff giant glitch, where the reappearing bridge in Bridge of Eldin can halt Jigglypuff's final smash (when he/she/it grows really big and insulates everyone off the stage) and makes him/her/it stay big. A glitch I like to gamble with is the Mirror Shield glitch, which involves teams and two Pits that are on opposite teams. A teammate shoots through the other teammate and both Pits must face each other using the mirror shield. Most of the time, it kills the opposing team with tremendous damage (+50%) and knockback, resulting in an oh-ko. But other times it just pushes the teammate across the floor. If the bullet or blast speeds up with each bounce, sometimes it goes so fast it goes right through the shooting team and sends the shooter off the stage. It's really interesting.

You can post friend codes on the topic if you want to play matches. This list is for you to not browse through the topic for codes in case this gets quite big.
Mystery (Deity) - 4599-3129-2348
Torch - 4341-7177-3426
Turkey - 0173-0956-5152

[Mystery]

I'm not holding my breath for the 4th one, honestly. Brawl is a fun game, to be sure, but it severely lacked balance(Meta Knight and Snake were WAY better than 90% of the roster, while others like Mario and Link are completely lackluster...and don't get me started on Ganondorf), took out advanced techniques like L-canceling and wavedashing, the physics were horrible in comparison to the original and Melee, and it has next to no tolerance for high skill levels(not to mention things like random tripping). Masahiro Sakurai is making the next game, and Brawl was his attempt to screw over competitive players. It worked, as 'competitive Brawl' in the fighting game community is near synonymous with joke.

And he thought and probably still thinks it was a success gameplay-wise.

...Brawl also removed the point system from N64 and Melee, as well as reducing the Break The Targets mini-game to 5 GLOBAL STAGES.



Anyway, as far as the games themselves go, N64  >  Melee           >           Brawl. I can play all of the characters quite well, although I prefer certain characters over others. I'd say that in N64 I played as Captain Falcon/Kirby/Fox the most, Melee I used Marth/Jigglypuff/Sheik the most, and Brawl I use Wario/Snake/Falco the most.

[Torch]

I'm not holding my breath for the 4th one, honestly. Brawl is a fun game, to be sure, but it severely lacked balance(Meta Knight and Snake were WAY better than 90% of the roster, while others like Mario and Link are completely lackluster...and don't get me started on Ganondorf), took out advanced techniques like L-canceling and wavedashing, the physics were horrible in comparison to the original and Melee, and it has next to no tolerance for high skill levels(not to mention things like random tripping). Masahiro Sakurai is making the next game, and Brawl was his attempt to screw over competitive players. It worked, as 'competitive Brawl' in the fighting game community is near synonymous with joke.

And he thought and probably still thinks it was a success gameplay-wise.

...Brawl also removed the point system from N64 and Melee, as well as reducing the Break The Targets mini-game to 5 GLOBAL STAGES.



Anyway, as far as the games themselves go, N64  >  Melee           >           Brawl. I can play all of the characters quite well, although I prefer certain characters over others. I'd say that in N64 I played as Captain Falcon/Kirby/Fox the most, Melee I used Marth/Jigglypuff/Sheik the most, and Brawl I use Wario/Snake/Falco the most.

I liked brawl way more than melee. More characters, the characters were all much more unique, the game was more balanced (yeah ganondorf sucks but he's no worse than pichu was in melee). Stages were more interesting, music was better, graphics were better, more modes to choose from, co-op everything including events. Wifi was poorly implemented but it's still a step up from no wifi at all.

In fact, I like the floaty physics more and I especially like how easy it is to grab ledges. The airdodging buff is also a huge improvement. A good player will still always come out on top in a no-item match, on a competitive stage. It's definitely slower-paced than melee but the game is still very skill-based. I agree random tripping is aweful though.

Overall, I'm a huge fan of the series and when I'm back from university for the summer break I'll add any of you on wifi.

[ARTgames]

Turkey like these games is good at them. If anything maybe you all should set up a wifi battles!

also btw: RayRay your avatar is setting off google chrome's website no trust filter. May want to look into that. 

[Turkey]

I like to play competitively (stock match, 1v1, no items, neutral stages) I don't want to start competitive gaming vs party gaming wars here, I'm just saying what i like.
I grew up playing N64 and Melee pretty much my entire childhood. N64 was awesome with my friends, we were all even in skill and play all the time.
When Melee came out, and since there were alot more tricks you could do to speed up your gameplay, i would begin getting more skilled in that stuff and my friends would rage and not play.
By the time brawl came out, same thing as melee... I do end playing against CPUs alot of the time and still enjoy myself.
Since reaction time is a huge part in smash bros I dislike wifi ALOT.

Views on SSB4 thus far, They are taking away arguably the best controller in gaming history (gamecube controller ftw.)
Nintendos view on smash bros is pretty much full force on being a party game, and not at all for competitive gaming, which would explain why people complain about the "floatieness" and the tricks being taken out of brawl.
I don't expect them to make SSB4 any faster or any more competitive than it is in brawl. But I am excited to see what they add/change. And who knows, maybe it will be better than brawl. Won't find out until forever from now.

It's not like making it more competitive hurts the party gamers, and even while i'm researching this stuff it constantly seems the party gamers give far more hate to the competitive gamers than vice versa.

Typing this out has made me mad at Sakurai

[RayRay]

also btw: RayRay your avatar is setting off google chrome's website no trust filter. May want to look into that.

It's MY avatar? I logged in and I got a warning too. I guess I'll remove it, but why does Google claim [forbiddensite] to be a dangerous website now?

[Lucifer]

Loved Super Smash Bros, rarely played Melee (Never owned a Game Cube), love brawl. Just for the record, Mario, Link, and Ganandorf are my favorite characters; I've never seen anything wrong with them, and whilst playing with my friends I rarely lose with them. I've personally never found any of the characters to be imbalanced, merely requiring different levels of skill, I.E. I suck ass with Snake and Meta Knight.

[Torch]

Turkey like these games is good at them. If anything maybe you all should set up a wifi battles!

also btw: RayRay your avatar is setting off google chrome's website no trust filter. May want to look into that.

I remember a while ago me and Turkey played a ton of Wifi together. Not sure if he remebers.

[RayRay]

Pikachu, Kirby, and even Yoshi Down+B and Toon Link Down+A spammers are not so difficult to kill, but they can be a burden if you try to fight someone else. I just make sure that when I am dueling or duking it out, I keep a good eye above me. Sometimes I need some high jumps just to cross Pikachu though. I can win a Pikachu spammer with 3 points on me, but usually if they try to join a frenzy with one of my tensions between another person by crashing down I try to take them out. Lucas seems like he was made to handle those kind of people. I know they have no skill but they at least need to try some new attacks.

[Mystery]

I look forward to playing all of you. My friend code is 4599-3129-2348, name's Deity. Like ARTgames said, we should set up Wifi battles sometime.

I liked brawl way more than melee. More characters, the characters were all much more unique, the game was more balanced (yeah ganondorf sucks but he's no worse than pichu was in melee). Stages were more interesting, music was better, graphics were better, more modes to choose from, co-op everything including events. Wifi was poorly implemented but it's still a step up from no wifi at all.

In fact, I like the floaty physics more and I especially like how easy it is to grab ledges. The airdodging buff is also a huge improvement. A good player will still always come out on top in a no-item match, on a competitive stage. It's definitely slower-paced than melee but the game is still very skill-based. I agree random tripping is aweful though.

Overall, I'm a huge fan of the series and when I'm back from university for the summer break I'll add any of you on wifi.

All the things you talked about were Brawl's good points. The diversity was a very good thing(I dislike the fact Project M is keeping many of the clone movesets from Melee).

The floaty physics would be fine if they were done better, IMHO. In stages like Mushroomy Kingdom, you can see how weird movement is, as you seem to retain some of your momentum but not very well.

I agree that Ganondorf in Brawl is better than Pichu in Melee. Pichu will always be my most-hated character.

The balance in Brawl is definitely skewed, though. The key here is to note what happens when you have a really good player playing as that character, how far they can go versus others. Meta Knight is godly in the hands of a really good player, while a really good Ganondorf wouldn't stand a chance against other characters at the same level. However, if you develop skill beyond a certain point with a specific character, you can beat pretty much anyone, even outliers, regardless of tiers.

You should also hate I really hate the N.A. Brawl metagame(and I think people should, as I laughed when APEX resolved and Japan kicked N.A.'s ass royally. Not to mention how much of an ass the spotlight pro players can be).

Stages, music, graphics, etc. were all a step up.

Airdodging being very difficult is really part of the point though, as if you're not careful, you'll be hopelessly juggled. I prefer N64 and Melee's airdodging.

Same thing with ledge grabbing. It's ridiculously easy to recover, in N64 and Melee it was very difficult, but easily possible to play a good air game near the edge.

Pikachu,

Use Ness/Lucas' PK Magnet when people spam Thunder, or even better, Mr. Game and Watch's Oil Spill. 3 Thunders stored and it's a OHKO.

Or just roll dodge away, since it takes a lot of time to actually hit.

Kirby,

For Stone spammers, roll dodge then quickly grab Kirby when he's in stone form, or if the player is at least smart enough to change out as soon as they hit the ground, Smash Attack them just before they hit the ground and you'll hit Kirby coming out of invincibility.

Punishing Hammer spammers is so easy it doesn't warrant me speaking about it.

Final Cutter spammers, the projectile that comes off the cutter is energy, so PK Magnet and Oil Spill both work, or just roll dodge into Kirby, then grab him.

and even Yoshi Down+B and Toon Link Down+A spammers

Roll dodge for Toon Link, then grab, with Yoshi, shield then Smash Attack.

[RayRay]

Thanks for the tips Mystery, you make it easier for me to handle them now. I never thought about grabbing Kirby in stone form, and I didn't know you could absorb the aerial cutter blast thingy.

I think we should play Wi-fi as well. I'll edit the OP for friend codes if you are posting it on the topic. I am not editing in upcoming match times, though, you should just look at the latest posts for that.

[Turkey]

Turkey like these games is good at them. If anything maybe you all should set up a wifi battles!

also btw: RayRay your avatar is setting off google chrome's website no trust filter. May want to look into that.

I remember a while ago me and Turkey played a ton of Wifi together. Not sure if he remebers.

Yeah, i remember. Good fun.

[crozier]

Wow, whats wrong with Pichu? All his moves hurt himself, but that only adds to his awesomeness.

Man melee was always one of my favorite multiplayer games. And everything Mystery says speaks of the truth. And I also played as Marth, and Shiek in melee.
But brawl just didn't meet up to expectations. The stage creater was sad, and most of the stages were bland (other then the pictochat one). The wifi was also jumpy.
My main beef with the series, is it doesn't learn from its mistakes. In melee, Ganondorf, Falco, Pichu, Young Link, Roy, and Dr. Mario were all imitations of the other characters. Brawl did the same thing with Toon Link, Lucas, Falco, Wolf(?), and Ike.
But yeah, smash bros 4 is still a ways away.

[Torch]

Wow, whats wrong with Pichu? All his moves hurt himself, but that only adds to his awesomeness.

Man melee was always one of my favorite multiplayer games. And everything Mystery says speaks of the truth. And I also played as Marth, and Shiek in melee.
But brawl just didn't meet up to expectations. The stage creater was sad, and most of the stages were bland (other then the pictochat one). The wifi was also jumpy.
My main beef with the series, is it doesn't learn from its mistakes. In melee, Ganondorf, Falco, Pichu, Young Link, Roy, and Dr. Mario were all imitations of the other characters. Brawl did the same thing with Toon Link, Lucas, Falco, Wolf(?), and Ike.
But yeah, smash bros 4 is still a ways away.

Ike is totally 100% unique, he's not even close to a clone. The other guys are like Luigi is to Mario. They aren't clones like the melee clones, they have a few special moves that are similar to other characters but they still play differently.

@Mystery: There's no debate that melee has a much more difficult and complex metagame and catered more towards the competitive players. I'm just more of a fan of mastering simple games than complex ones (provided the simple games aren't luckbased -- !@#$ random tripping). I like how much easier it is and it allows me to play competitively without getting my ass kicked. That's who brawl appeals to: casual/semi-casual gamers. They make up more of the Wii's market so it makes sense.

[Mystery]

Wow, whats wrong with Pichu? All his moves hurt himself, but that only adds to his awesomeness.

:o

Try to face anyone at your skill level using Pichu when the other player uses any other character. Even Kirby.

He's by far the lightest character in the game, he racks up damage VERY quickly on himself(if it wasn't so much, maybe it'd be less of a problem), he has basically no strong or KO moves, and he's easy to combo. His only saving grace is his agility. Not his Up+B Agility, his quickness. And even that means relatively nothing, as so many other characters are almost as fast/faster.

In melee, Ganondorf, Falco, Pichu, Young Link, Roy, and Dr. Mario were all imitations of the other characters. Brawl did the same thing with Toon Link, Lucas, Falco, Wolf(?), and Ike.

Melee was MUCH more clonish with movesets than Brawl.

Ganondorf was practically the exact same as Captain Falcon except for his weight and damaging properties,

Falco was almost EXACTLY the same as Fox except for his Blaster stunning move and his recovery being crappier than Fox's,

Pichu has all the same moves as Pikachu but with less weight, different properties, and hurting himself,

Young Link was almost a carbon copy of Link but had slight hitbox and damage changes, flaming arrows, less weight, and was faster,

Roy had lots of minor hitbox changes(to his major detriment, as he is FAR worse than Marth) and his Flare Blade move could OHKO and it hurt him, but was the exact same as Marth otherwise,

and Dr. Mario just had more damaging Megavitamins and a longer Super Sheet as well as having slightly more weight, but other than that, was the same as Mario.

All those characters had nearly the exact same moveset as their cloned character.

The only character out of that list who you could really make a case for being a full-on clone in Brawl is Toon Link, as his special moves are the same as Link's, but with different properties. And even then, his normal A attacks have a good amount of variety from Link, and his recovery is better, he's lighter, and faster.

Lucas has vastly different A attacks from Ness, has PK Freeze instead of PK Flash, his PK Fire hits once horizontally and can be used to Zapjump, Wavebounce, or Magnet Pull, his PK Thunder hits multiple times and is slower, his PK Thunder 2 hits multiple times as well, and his PK Magnet deals damage upon release.

Falco's A attacks are almost all completely different from Fox's, he can Dash Attack Canceled Up Smash effectively, his Blaster can now be used to Laser Hop, his d-air is the best spike in the game compared to Fox's non-spiking multihit d-air, he can chain grab everyone in the game with his down throw to either instantly spike and KO or hurt for >30% damage at 0%, and he kicks his Reflector outward. The only thing I can really see about Falco being clonish is that his Fire Bird and Falco Phantasm were made to be on par with Fox's in Brawl compared to Melee.

Wolf's A attacks are ALL different from Fox's, he can Dash Attack Canceled Up Smash effectively too(Fox can't), his Blaster is VERY different from both Fox and Falco's, his Wolf Flash can spike and has different trajectory, as well as having very different behavior when canceled in comparison to Fox Illusion, his Fire Wolf has much less starting lag and multi-hits, and his Reflector has invincibility frames, can't be used to Shine, and has barely any knockback.

Ike can't even be called a partial clone of Marth because they're so radically different. The ONLY thing they share is Counter. But then again, if you would call him a clone based on that, you would have to call Sonic a combined clone of Wolf, Falco and Sheik, Wolf for his u-smash being the same as Sonic's u-air and his n-air being the same as Sonic's n-air, Falco for his f-air being the exact same as Sonic's f-air, and Sheik's d-air being the same as Sonic's d-air, Lucario a clone of Mewtwo for having Aura Sphere be basically the same as Shadow Ball, and Luigi being a clone of Pikachu for having Green Missile be basically the same as Skull Bash.

@Mystery: There's no debate that melee has a much more difficult and complex metagame and catered more towards the competitive players. I'm just more of a fan of mastering simple games than complex ones (provided the simple games aren't luckbased -- !@#$ random tripping). I like how much easier it is and it allows me to play competitively without getting my ass kicked. That's who brawl appeals to: casual/semi-casual gamers. They make up more of the Wii's market so it makes sense.

I've always personally felt Melee was easy to pick up and become quite good at, what's hard as balls is MASTERING it at the upper pro levels. Not the plain pro levels, the outlier levels.

What I'd like to see for the next Smash is for there to be advanced technique tutorials(those that were intended, they should even include ones they find) in the game already laid out, as well as having the timing on each technique be considerably easier, more depth than Brawl for the metagame and for casual players(as Brawl's is bloody horrible, at least in North America)and a better Wi-Fi system where you would see lots of skilled lobbies and tournaments(and little to no lag. If you could harness the lag from the Wi-Fi in Brawl for energy, you could power the entirety of Asia. It's especially bad because Smash Bros. NEEDS reaction time.)

Basically please both crowds and make it easy to become a very good player, not punishing one side one way or the other. This would literally solve EVERYTHING.

I'd like to see DLC be put into play, even custom graphics, modes, stages(not like Brawl's horribly crappy Stage Builder) and custom characters and movesets.

I'd like Star KOs to be toggleable.

Oh, and being able to toggle on and off the 'randomness' on certain moves, like Peach's Vegetables not being completely random(instead staying the same), Luigi's Green Missile not having a 12.5% chance to be much stronger(but buffed to be better than Pikachu's Skull Bash, as it's much weaker than it in Brawl), and Mr. Game and Watch's Judgement being based on how many combo hits you get on a person immediately before usage so getting a 9 would be really bloody hard.