[Guide] on VIT - DEF - HP (SPOILER)

[ARTgames]

bookmarks? do you know yo use them? no its just fine.

[Josh]

Anyway Meiun dosnt mind if you revive topics unless there ontopic which i dont believe this is.

[JoEL]

This revival was kind of useless however...

[Prosper]

I didnt want to create a new post subject just for this so I put it in here and its not sooo off topic either :

It takes 7900 damage to kill a DS.

Im not saying it has 7900 hp because we can't know that and we dont know its DEF.

Just that it took me 7900 damage to kill a DS :P

[Seifer]

And people say DS is hard! Thats only two and a half stam bars for me.

[JoEL]

And people say DS is hard! Thats only two and a half stam bars for me.

Bet he'd kill you first though if he could rest too!

Anyway...

It takes 7900 damage to kill a DS.

How have you tested this? Have you tested it on many different characters with different amounts of strength? How do you know how much damage you do to a monster? Who is to say damage is calculated differently on monsters?

Also if you plan on using that knock-back idea to find out how much defense a DS has it won't work. Defense is calculated by VIT not Strength (for pvp) and I'm pretty sure monsters don't have stat points, if they do that's cool. I'm pretty sure Meiun said knock-back reduction is seperate for monsters, meaning they probably have a variable that only contributes to knock-back resistance and not to anything else, or something along the lines of that.

But hey, you could be completely right that it takes 7900 damage to kill a DS. But I honestly can't believe anything if theres no visible facts to prove it, so I'm interested, what methods did you use to find this out?

Just that it took me 7900 damage to kill a DS :P

Isn't enough for me! :)

(sorry if none of this didn't make much sense, I'm kind of rushing)

[Prosper]

hehehehe joel joel joel...

I took Celson statmixer and simulated my exact same level str and wep and hat. It gave me a number per hit. And it took me x amounts of hits with my katana to kill it.

I just happened to solo 2 DS today and I counted the number of hits it took just for fun.

I'm not declaring that Its the exact same thing. Im just scaling the monster to the data I have.

I am sure 7900 is nowhere in SO codes its just the amount of damage I deal to it as it is non-officialy stated in Celson statmixer.

That alone is enough to just give a general idea and is a lot better than jesusland 2500+ or something stated as DS hp.

[Lingus]

Joel, Prosper clearly stated that he understands that number is not the actual HP of the monster. You can determine how much damage output you perform in order to kill a monster. And as Prosper indicated, that is only one part of the equation. Using a different weapon/str combination, you might have to output more or less damage due to damage reduction per hit.

I'm actually glad someone finally worded their finding in such a way. Typically someone might have said, "A DS has 7900 HP!" which I would have had to say was wrong.

[Cactuscat222]

Yay, lets argue about semantics on the internet.

[Lingus]

Yay, lets argue about semantics on the internet.

It's not semantics I'm talking about. The difference is that the people who say it that way actually mean what they are saying. It's not that we're both talking about the same thing only said differently.

But you're right. We should argue about semantics...

Seriously, wanna?

[Seifer]

Theoretically, it would be the same damage from anyone, no matter the weapon. Let's assume the DS has a defense score, and frankly, we don't even know if that's the case, it may just have a large wad of HP. With that being said, say it has 20 defense, which roughly equated to 50% of damage taken is negated.

Player A hits for 40 damage, Player B hits for 80 damage.
Once we factor in the defense of the DS, Player A hits for 20, and Player B hits for 40. Untimely, if we were to calculate the amount of damage each player would have to do, it's the same. Player A simply has to do more hits, but he knows this.

Assuming that the DS has no defense, than the same thing applies, and the amount of damage needed to fell a DS would be the same. The only error in these discussions is the amount of overkill. If you swing for 100 damage, and the DS has 10 hp left, you wont actually know how much he had left, and just assume it was 100, putting your estimate off by 90 hp.

[JoEL]

Joel, Prosper clearly stated that he understands that number is not the actual HP of the monster.

I didn't mean to head into the direction that he said that, I was just curious on what methods he used, I'm not trying to cause problems.

hehehehe joel joel joel...

I took Celson statmixer and simulated my exact same level str and wep and hat. It gave me a number per hit. And it took me x amounts of hits with my katana to kill it.

I just happened to solo 2 DS today and I counted the number of hits it took just for fun.

I'm not declaring that Its the exact same thing. Im just scaling the monster to the data I have.

I am sure 7900 is nowhere in SO codes its just the amount of damage I deal to it as it is non-officialy stated in Celson statmixer.

That alone is enough to just give a general idea and is a lot better than jesusland 2500+ or something stated as DS hp.

Now that's something I can believe. Thanks for clearing that up for me :)

[Lingus]

Theoretically, it would be the same damage from anyone, no matter the weapon. Let's assume the DS has a defense score, and frankly, we don't even know if that's the case, it may just have a large wad of HP. With that being said, say it has 20 defense, which roughly equated to 50% of damage taken is negated.

Player A hits for 40 damage, Player B hits for 80 damage.
Once we factor in the defense of the DS, Player A hits for 20, and Player B hits for 40. Untimely, if we were to calculate the amount of damage each player would have to do, it's the same. Player A simply has to do more hits, but he knows this.

Assuming that the DS has no defense, than the same thing applies, and the amount of damage needed to fell a DS would be the same. The only error in these discussions is the amount of overkill. If you swing for 100 damage, and the DS has 10 hp left, you wont actually know how much he had left, and just assume it was 100, putting your estimate off by 90 hp.

Yes, you're right about that. The flaw is in assuming that the monster has no Def though. Because we're talking about how much damage you have to deal to the monster, not how much damage you have to output. The only number you know for certain is your damage output. So using the same test that Prosper used, all you know is that you have to output at least 7900 damage, but for someone dealing less damage than he did it might be less.

In other words, the best way to figure out the least amount of damage output required would be to hit a monster with an output of less than 3 damage. Since that is the least amount of damage you can do to a monster per hit, and you know each hit is exactly 3 damage dealt, you can determine the amount of damage required more accurately.

Although, again this gives you a number that relates more to the HP of the monster. If you then take a higher damage str/weapon combination and the amount of damage you output in order to kill the monster is significantly higher, then you know this monster has Def. Presumably, now that we have the damage reduction formula, you could reverse calculate a rough number for the defense of the monster.

[Seifer]

But the damage mitigated is relative across the board, no matter what your damage output is, and in the end it equals out. Say a DS really has 4000 HP, but he mitigates 50% of damage. In the end, we would need to have an output of damage equal to 8000, no matter how much your output per hit is.

[Lingus]

Right, I get that part. It's a good rough basis to use.

Of course, the problem comes in when you deal too little damage. As soon as your damage dealt to the monster drops below 3, the full defense of the monster is no longer taken into consideration. If your output is actually 3 or less damage, then you only have to output the amount of the monster's HP (to within 2 HP) regardless of defense.

So yes, I agree that what you're saying works for higher damage output, but it doesn't work across the board. But yea, for the most part, it's a good basis.