[Guide] on VIT - DEF - HP (SPOILER)

[ARTgames]

ok. with wizzy on i got -55hp from sf and -35hp from a cac. good night and thank you. This tool your making will be super usefull.

also is this true?
100 - (53 / 56 * 100) = the DAM ABSORBED % with 1 def

[Lingus]

That formula looks right art.

Btw, how much damage do you take from a cactus with 0def? You stated 35 with 1def, but not with 0def.

[ARTgames]

Well 100 - ((53 / 56) * 100) = 5.35714286% not 4.5%. I'm missing something.

Also i loged on and took a look. I get -38hp from cac with no def.

[Lingus]

I'm becoming more and more curious how Prosper actually got these numbers. After getting real world data from Art on two different monsters, here is what we have:

100 - ((55 / 59) * 100) = 6.779~
100 - ((35 / 38) * 100) = 7.894~

Let me know if we have the calculation wrong to figure out the percentage. But I think it's right.

If so, it shows that you can't figure out a damage reduction formula based on this data. It would also depend on the initial damage taken as well as the amount of defense you have. In other words, the more damage you take, the less of a percentage your defense will reduce the damage.

[Hambone]

I imagine with a larger body of data you could find out if they are actually the same. If I read that equation correctly, you only took the differences from 2 levels of defense. It may happen that the cacti's lower hit caused it to round differently after calculations. Try to test further, I'm just speculating because it seems like a waste to calculate damage differently for each enemy.

[Prosper]

I also think its the same equation for all monsters.

ARTgames is currently gathering exact data for def 0 1 2 3

And me for 4 5 7

Also I think its not rounded up or down but truncated.

as instead of 16.99 giving 17 it just truncs the decimals and dam would still be 16.

Still not absolutely 100% positive on that.

I'm pretty sure about the 3% 2% and 1% part.. but the 4.5% is not right yet... I am processing by trial and error after all.

Also I had data for DEF 4 5 7 14 15 17 23 29. Since all those are currently correct I assume the ones inbetween are correct also.

[ARTgames]

Here is 0 - 3 for all normal monster

blob:
0:def -11hp
1:def -10hp
2:def -10hp
3:def -9np

RB:
0:def -33hp
1:def -31hp
2:def -29hp
3:def -27hp

bandit:
0:def -20hp
1:def -19hp
2:def -17hp
3:def -16hp

cac:
0:def -38hp
1:def -35hp
2:def -33hp
3:def -31hp

skelly:
0:def -29hp
1:def -27hp
2:def -25hp
3:def -24hp

sf:
0:def -59hp
1:def -55hp
2:def -51hp
3:def -48hp

[Aqua]

By the way, if your defense formula is correct, you can use Substitution/Elimination to know any monster's HP and Defense.
~Aqua

[Seifer]

I'm not looking into your specifics, but there isn't "three" softcaps. The softcap is simply that as your defense goes higher, it's effectiveness becomes less. It doesn't hit increments or stages, but is constantly moving.

Also, your getting close, but i cross referenced some of your numbers with those that the formula put out, and there not right. Close though.

Also, I'd like to mention that you shoulden't be counting in terms of Damage absorbed, but damage taken. That is how the game calculates it anyways. Simpler that way. Because than it's just (Base damage)*(% of damage you take)

[Prosper]

I'm not looking into your specifics, but there isn't "three" softcaps. The softcap is simply that as your defense goes higher, it's effectiveness becomes less. It doesn't hit increments or stages, but is constantly moving.

Also, your getting close, but i cross referenced some of your numbers with those that the formula put out, and there not right. Close though.

Also, I'd like to mention that you shoulden't be counting in terms of Damage absorbed, but damage taken. That is how the game calculates it anyways. Simpler that way. Because than it's just (Base damage)*(% of damage you take)

;D Cool !

With ART's new data I'ma give it another shot today and I will try to find out the exact decrement in the DEF % change.. I already feel its more gonna be something like 6% 5.9% 5.8% etc.. 

[Seifer]

It's not a constant. Theres no pattern.

[Aqua]

I'm inclined to believe that it's using some parabolic equation: such as a square root with some coefficient. 1 gives you 1, 4 gives you 2, 9 gives you 3, 16 gives you 4, et cetera.
~Aqua

[Lingus]

By the way, if your defense formula is correct, you can use Substitution/Elimination to know any monster's HP and Defense.
~Aqua

Not exactly. Remember, you have the issue of having 1 too many variables in the equation. You need to know either how much HP or how much defense the monster has. The only thing you know is how much initial damage you do, and how many hits it takes to kill the monster. That's not enough data for an accurate result.

I'm starting to think the same is going to be true about finding out an accurate defense formula. With the data art provided we can only come up with a range of percentages for each defense level. This is due to the fact that you don't know the exact damage being dealt because the decimals are being truncated or rounded (and not knowing which of those is the case also adds to the confusion.)

Here's just the first issue I run into with the numbers. When I throw in different percentages, there is nothing that provides me with the damages received at def 1 for all monsters (this is assuming you truncate the decimals rather than round). At 5%, the blob, RB, bandit, and skelly match, but the cactus and sf do not. If I go up even a tenth of a percent to 5.1% the bandit is off. This means there is no one percentage that works in every case (again, if you assume you truncate the decimals).

Now, assuming we don't truncate but round, we still can't figure out an exact percentage. At any percentage from 6.6% up to 7.5% the numbers will round correctly to the damage received at def 1. This means there will never be enough data to accurately determine the exact percentages.

And to bring up another pretty major issue, we may not be using the exact base damage. I imagine the base damage could potentially be calculated using the damage formula for monsters. It's possible that Meiun hard codes the monsters exact damage rather than giving them strength and calculating their damage based on that... but we don't know. So the base damage might contain decimals that are used in the calculation that we aren't seeing. We can assume that there aren't any, but then if we are wrong our numbers would be off.

I've said it before, and I know it's disappointing news to people who want to try to figure out all the data... it's just not worth it. You're going to go through tons of testing and data gathering, then tons of complicated calculations to get assumed results that may or may not be accurate depending on the situation. There's no way to figure out the defense formula, just like there's no way to figure out the HP and defense of monsters. Not without additional inside information from someone who knows what they're talking about (ie Meiun.)

[Aqua]

The only issue in finding data is that the variables are rounded up or down. With exact decimals, it would be possible to calculate.
~Aqua

[Lingus]

Yes. You are correct. If we knew exactly how much the initial base damage the monster deals, and exactly how much damage is received before any rounding or truncating occurs, then we could determine the exact percentages. But... we will never have that data unless either Meiun tells it to us, or someone does some shady things with the games programming, which would just be wrong to do.