For shame, Ubisoft.

[ARTgames]

Lets say Sony make the psp 5 and it came with no batteries and you had to keep it plunged into the wall all the time. You know that was stupidness but you bought it any was for some weird reason.

Then a random psp 5 hater came out of no ware and cut the power to your house. Was that really necessary if you got the psp5 knowing when you boght it you need to keep it plunged in? Whose fault was it that you could not play a psp5 that day?

P.S. i would never buy this psp 5! And im not getting creed 2. I do not like this drm and i will not support it. But i will not also harm people who have it just because i don't like it. Im not proving anything to that person that they don't already know. It gets every one no ware and just keeps hurting the people who paid. The thing i dont mind the hacker doing is breaking the drm so people can play it offline. But they have already done that. :D

[Lingus]

Its just a bunch of hackers acting like children. Yeah no duh, if ddos there servers people will not be able to play. Does that really need proving? no.

That may or may not be true. I assumed, like you do, that everyone who bought a game with this DRM should realize what they are buying. But there's a lot of stupid people out there who either do no research, don't take the time to read notices on the box, or don't understand what they mean by "Requires constant internet connection to play." These people who may not have understood what the DRM did were made aware. Still a stupid reason for hating on Ubisoft. All the hackers did was make them look bad. Which I guess is a good thing. The quicker they realize this DRM is bad the better. Then I can buy the game.

One thing my friends mentioned was that rather than buying the game for the PC and supporting this DRM, they would be willing to buy it for the 360. This would show that the game itself is good, and that they support the game, but not the DRM. On the other hand, it is also not giving support to PC games (which I think should be done, but only without this kind of DRM). At the same time, I'm not entirely sure how much a game developer is going to look at the sales from one platform to another. I have a feeling they are going to see their sales as a whole. They will likely get thousands of sales for the PC anyways. Plenty to justify their DRM. They will also likely get plenty of sales on console, enough to justify the game's success. The only way they would truely see the DRM as a bad thing is if people were to boycott the games as a whole regardless of platform. Otherwise they will just continue to produce the games for both including the DRM on PC, and or cutting out PC production all together (which would be a bad thing).

[ARTgames]

Well

Its just a bunch of hackers acting like children. Yeah no duh, if ddos there servers people will not be able to play. Does that really need proving? no.

That may or may not be true. I assumed, like you do, that everyone who bought a game with this DRM should realize what they are buying. But there's a lot of stupid people out there who either do no research, don't take the time to read notices on the box, or don't understand what they mean by "Requires constant internet connection to play." These people who may not have understood what the DRM did were made aware. Still a stupid reason for hating on Ubisoft. All the hackers did was make them look bad. Which I guess is a good thing. The quicker they realize this DRM is bad the better. Then I can buy the game.

One thing my friends mentioned was that rather than buying the game for the PC and supporting this DRM, they would be willing to buy it for the 360. This would show that the game itself is good, and that they support the game, but not the DRM. On the other hand, it is also not giving support to PC games (which I think should be done, but only without this kind of DRM). At the same time, I'm not entirely sure how much a game developer is going to look at the sales from one platform to another. I have a feeling they are going to see their sales as a whole. They will likely get thousands of sales for the PC anyways. Plenty to justify their DRM. They will also likely get plenty of sales on console, enough to justify the game's success. The only way they would truely see the DRM as a bad thing is if people were to boycott the games as a whole regardless of platform. Otherwise they will just continue to produce the games for both including the DRM on PC, and or cutting out PC production all together (which would be a bad thing).

fine. fine. i agree, look here: http://www.amazon.com/Assassins-Creed-2-Pc/dp/B001TOQ8R0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1268853869&sr=8-3

[Lingus]

Ah. That's not the retail game box if I'm correct. The correct box has a warning from what I've seen.

Though if you scroll down to the very first customer review they point it out.

Shame on Amazon for not pointing this out. I'm curious if Steam has the "Requires constant internet connection warning". They do on all MMOs, so I would think it says for this game.

But yea, I guess that kind of makes my point. A lot of people will look at the main information on that Amazon page and click "Buy" without any other research not even bothering to scroll down and read reviews. But, even if they didn't know at the time of buying, they know now because of the servers going down. I would love to see everyone who bought the game return it, have Ubisoft issue an apology, remove their DRM, and drop the PC price of the game to $40. That would almost guarantee massive numbers of sales.

[ARTgames]

Shame on Amazon for not pointing this out. .... They do on all MMOs, so I would think it says for this game.

yeah they really really should. Amazon to fault there. But i hope most people at least take a look down if a game has got 60+ 1 start reviews out of 70 in all. :P

but at steam they have:

A PERMANENT HIGH SPEED INTERNET CONNECTION AND CREATION OF A UBISOFT ACCOUNT ARE REQUIRED TO PLAY THIS VIDEO GAME AT ALL TIMES AND TO UNLOCK EXCLUSIVE CONTENT. SUCH CONTENT MAY ONLY BE UNLOCKED ONE SINGLE TIME WITH A UNIQUE KEY. YOU MUST BE AT LEAST 13 TO CREATE A UBISOFT ACCOUNT WITHOUT PARENTAL CONSENT. UBISOFT MAY CANCEL ACCESS TO ONLINE FEATURES UPON A 30-DAY PRIOR NOTICE PUBLISHED AT

But i still have a feeling that the number of people who were going to buy the pc game of this that did not know about the drm was really really low. But idk im making that number up. And on the retail copies there is a big white text on the front cover that says you need an Internet connection. And if you miss that i think thats more of the users fault than any one else. Its not like they did not try and worn you.

edit:
BTW you all would probably like gta sa pc drm. You just placed it in your dvd drive and pressed install. No CD key or Internet required.

[Lingus]

And if you miss that i think thats more of the users fault than any one else. Its not like they did not try and worn you.

True, but the point I was making with that is that the DDOS attacks served to inform these people. The message was not, "Hey everyone who already knows this DRM is crappy, look how crappy the DRM is!" It was, "Hey everyone, this DRM means when the servers go down, you can't play the game you paid $60 for!" and it was effective in that sense, and there were likely people who came to that realization because of it.

Whether or not Ubisoft attempted to inform people is not in question. The point is that regardless of how they went about informing people, some people most likely did not realize it. After the DDOS attacks, everyone knows. And hopefully that will cause more people to take action such as returning the game.

[ARTgames]

And if you miss that i think that's more of the users fault than any one else. Its not like they did not try and worn you.

True, but the point I was making with that is that the DDOS attacks served to inform these people. The message was not, "Hey everyone who already knows this DRM is crappy, look how crappy the DRM is!" It was, "Hey everyone, this DRM means when the servers go down, you can't play the game you paid $60 for!" and it was effective in that sense, and there were likely people who came to that realization because of it.

Well as i said before i don't think that was that many people. But as i said i have no number to back that up. And i don't think you do ether.

Whether or not Ubisoft attempted to inform people is not in question. The point is that regardless of how they went about informing people, some people most likely did not realize it. After the DDOS attacks, everyone knows. And hopefully that will cause more people to take action such as returning the game.

Come on! I think the amount of people who wanted this for PC and did not read the news stories, or see the all in caps letter on steam, or the fount of the box is a really really low number. I am sorry but if you don't read the front of your game box before installing the game its not the game makers fault. That's the users fault.

I mean come on look at this:

How could you blame Ubisoft for not properly informing the user. (off topic but doesn't the word permanent look like the word pregnant? nah, must just be me)

I don't even think if a lot of people did not know that about the drm that ddos ubisoft was not a good idea. There is a better more legal ways of doing it. And at no point do two wrongs make a rite. This is argument is just getting silly now.

[Lingus]

Well as i said before i don't think that was that many people. But as i said i have no number to back that up. And i don't think you do ether.

No, but the important point is that there were any.

Whether or not Ubisoft attempted to inform people is not in question. The point is that regardless of how they went about informing people, some people most likely did not realize it. After the DDOS attacks, everyone knows. And hopefully that will cause more people to take action such as returning the game.

Come on! I think the amount of people who wanted this for PC and did not read the news stories, or see the all in caps letter on steam, or the fount of the box is a really really low number. I am sorry but if you don't read the front of your game box before installing the game its not the game makers fault. That's the users fault.

Art, you're missing my point. I'm not saying it's Ubisofts fault. I clearly said that it was the "stupid people" who didn't realize this. It's definitely their fault for not doing more research. What I'm getting at is now that these people who didn't know (through no fault of Ubisoft) now know (because of the DDOS attack) they will be more likely to demand the DRM to be removed or return the game for a refund (at least I'm hoping).

I mean come on look at this:

Well, you're the one who found the Amazon link that had no warning. Honestly I think you're discounting how stupid or unaware some people can be. I bet there's more people that didn't know about this than you think. Yes, anyone who calls themself a "gamer" probably knew. Anyone who cares about what they buy probably knew. But impulse buyers, or parents buying a game for a kid. They may not have known.

I don't even think if a lot of people did not know that about the drm that ddos ubisoft was not a good idea. There is a better more legal ways of doing it. And at no point do two wrongs make a rite. This is argument is just getting silly now.

I don't know. I agree two wrongs don't make a right, but I still think this was a very effective (not necessarily "good") way of shocking people into an understanding. As far as I'm concerned if companies are going to start using shady DRM tactics, it's fair game for hackers to use shady tactics to show them how wrong they are.

[ARTgames]

Iv never seen you like this Lingus. You must really want this game without the price and drm.

[Lingus]

Well, considering I'm very pro PC (versus console) yes. This kind of thing is what kills PC gaming. If you have to pay the same price and get a worse product it's not worth it. But for me I don't have a console and can't justify buying one, but I will always have a PC. So if PC games go this route I pretty much won't ever buy games.

That's why I was curious what people thought of my earlier comment about buying this for the console versus PC. If people think that's a viable method for showing game companies what they think it might mean the end of PC gaming as we know it!

(Okay, maybe I'm being a bit dramatic...)

[ARTgames]

It just scares me what you all will do to have it your way. I hope this all sticks to simple internet war.

[Chaos]

Iv never seen you like this Lingus. You must really want this game without the price and drm.

Don't blame him.  Blame Ubisoft.  I'm sure he would gladly take the game WITH the price and without the DRM.  This is exactly what this topic has been about, and I believe my point has been THOROUGHLY proven.  DRM is one cause of piracy.  If we want to reduce piracy, clearly DRM is what needs to be OUTLAWED.

[ARTgames]

Don't blame him.  Blame Ubisoft.

well i kinda did. I was blaming Ubisoft for having those two things he does not want. But its still his fault he wants to play it. :P

[joking context]
Chaos DRM does not cause piracy, people do!
[/joking context]

Chaos i agree that this DRM is not good. I just don't really agree how people are combating it.

I think the best way of combating it is not giving them money and telling them why. I'm not going to steal there game, or ddos there server. I think not giving them cash will hurt them ware it hurts them the most. The pocket.

I just hope no ones dies because they cant play there ac2. (im over exaggerating but you get the point)

[Lingus]

I'm sure he would gladly take the game WITH the price and without the DRM.

Not really no. I will not pay $60 for a PC game. Especially if I'm getting digital distribution (Steam). It makes no sense. What the hell is all of that money going to? They're just inflating their prices. What's even worse is that one major reason for inflating prices is to account for lost sales due to piracy. But you'd think the DRM would handle that (not accounting for the fact that we all agree that this DRM will cause people to pirate more... obviously Ubisoft did not think so.) So why would they have the DRM AND inflate the price? If they did one but not the other I would feel better, but I would still be pissed. Actually, to be honest, I almost would have bought the game with the DRM if the price were lower. But probably not.

I think the best way of combating it is not giving them money and telling them why. I'm not going to steal there game, or ddos there server. I think not giving them cash will hurt them ware it hurts them the most. The pocket.

I completely agree with you, and that's what I'm doing and I hope others are doing... but the reality is that a lot of people are going to buy this game. They will make enough money on it to justify their DRM. So in the end that method is futile. My friend and I were having this exact discussion, and he said my mindset was the same as people who don't vote because they think their vote doesn't count. My response was basically, "Yes, exactly." That's exactly how I feel in both situations. It's futile to act because my actions are outweighed by the vast throngs of people who don't care what results their actions bring about.

[ARTgames]

I completely agree with you, and that's what I'm doing and I hope others are doing... but the reality is that a lot of people are going to buy this game.

No, that's what you think the reality is. Do you have PC sails numbers to justify that?  The argument that every one is stupid and they must be protected form overpaying for a DRMed video game by breaking the law just seems so silly to me. Especially coming form you, a person who says smart stuff all the time.
[joking context]
Who do you think you are? A government regulation?
[/joking context]
I need to have one bad joke a post.

They will make enough money on it to justify their DRM. So in the end that method is futile.

Well what is not paying off now will do so in the future. If people still buy this game and they hate the game's DRM then they are not going to get AC3 if it has the same requirements. If people still get AC3 with all this DRM then i guess the DRM was not as bad as you all make it out to be. The problem will fix its self ether way.

Also Lingus just get the game off ebay and crack it. Your not supporting Ubisoft, your not stuck with the DRM, its not illegal, and its not going to be $60.