Moral Thinking

[Jackabomb]

That was me. It would be cool to add gradually more complex elements(relationships, traumatic experiences, etc..)

[Rayu]

He should have Kept the pills and sold them for Cash, and just let the bitch die.  8)

[Torch]

Thank you for posting that, Chaos, I found it fascinating. As I am in high school, I see a lot of stage three moral opinions from my peers and I think it would be beneficial if this article were to be part of a mandatory high school course for people to realize the basis of their moral decisions.

[Chaos]

Glad you guys enjoyed it.  Psychology is one class I would definitely recommend to anyone considering it.  It is an extremely interesting subject, imo.

[Scotty]

Glad you guys enjoyed it.  Psychology is one class I would definitely recommend to anyone considering it.  It is an extremely interesting subject, imo.

Will it help me understand women?  Judging by your lacking of any social interaction with chicks, I'd guess no, therefor, a waste of a class!

[Chaos]

Glad you guys enjoyed it.  Psychology is one class I would definitely recommend to anyone considering it.  It is an extremely interesting subject, imo.

Will it help me understand women?  Judging by your lacking of any social interaction with chicks, I'd guess no, therefor, a waste of a class!

That would have been far more of a 'zing' if, A.) You actually needed any help interacting with women, B.) I actually had a lack of social interaction with women, and C.)  You hadn't already told me on MSN that you had made it your mission the past couple days to be as big a dick as you could possibly manage.

Oh well.

[Ciro]

I have a question that relates to the topic, but not the original question... O_o


I hate it when people are rude.
I hate it when people are both purposely rude, and unintentionally rude.
I hate rude people.
When someone is being disrespectful, and completely ignoring the fact that they're a neuscense, I hate that.
So, when a white person does it I hate it, and when a black person does it, I hate it, o-o

But does it make me a racist if I find that more black people tend to be rude?

[Rayu]

I have a question that relates to the topic, but not the original question... O_o


I hate it when people are rude.
I hate it when people are both purposely rude, and unintentionally rude.
I hate rude people.
When someone is being disrespectful, and completely ignoring the fact that they're a neuscense, I hate that.
So, when a white person does it I hate it, and when a black person does it, I hate it, o-o

But does it make me a racist if I find that more black people tend to be rude?

Doesn't matter what people say majority of stereotypes are true. Though you can't obviously judge every person based on stereotypes. Because everyone is different. Fact is though, Majority of people who say they aren't "racist" Might still prefer the company of white people compared to black people, and vice versa.

When you get down to the point, the only true way to be "Racist" is to literally have a strong since of hate for a race, for no specific reason other than they are different.

[Lingus]

Thank you for posting that article, Chaos. I found it fascinating. Twice I was going to post a response in this topic but each ended up being too long, not complying with your wishes, or going off on a slight tangent and deviating from the topic at hand, so I just clicked out of it (which actually happens often to me). I can post a response now because these two sentences:

Heinz should steal the medicine, because saving a human life is a more fundamental value than the property rights of another person. Or: Heinz should not steal the medicine, because others may need the medicine just as badly, and their lives are equally significant.

say the exact (literally the exact) same thing I would have said in four paragraphs and a good hour spent piecing my thoughts together. I second whoever said you should make more of these kinds of scenarios.

Trogdor, my post actually was in line with Stage 6. I love that my moral stance is viewed as one of the highest in this context. The fact that it is not even proven as existing because not enough people exhibit the behavior is amazing. I guess based on this topic it makes sense. I don't think anyone else responded in the same way. There was mostly stage 4, and some stage 5.

But anyways, I think the difference is what you say you would do and what you would actually do... It might be different for some people.

[Aqua]

He was wrong to steal the medicine, because stealing is wrong NO matter what.
If I had been the one who got stolen from, I would have been quick to forgive.
But if I was a greedy seller, then... good thing I'm not.
~Aqua

[Red October]

But does it make me a racist if I find that more black people tend to be rude?

Of course you are! But that's becuase the meaning of racism has been significantlly changed by the media. Everything is racist now, or atleast to someone else. For example, this Australian KFC ad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaZMM-MVBMA), which was misunderstood by Americans, see (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc3PI6YJ5mQ) for a good responce to this issue, but I warn Americans might be offended by some of his comments towards the end of the video.

Anyway. I personly think your not "racist". Rayu puts it nicely that you do not  have a "sinse of hate for a race, for no specific reason other than they are different."

[Trogdor]

Trogdor, my post actually was in line with Stage 6. I love that my moral stance is viewed as one of the highest in this context. The fact that it is not even proven as existing because not enough people exhibit the behavior is amazing. I guess based on this topic it makes sense. I don't think anyone else responded in the same way. There was mostly stage 4, and some stage 5.

But anyways, I think the difference is what you say you would do and what you would actually do... It might be different for some people.

Coincidentally, it was your reply that gave me the initiative to try posting again, though I couldn't really expound upon the issue without going off on a tangent or adding anything that you didn't already say. It makes sense to me that hardly anyone's level of morality is at Stage 6 simply because it would be a horrible evolutionary trait, one that has been slowly weeded out over thousands of years. Jesus, Buddha, Mahatma Gandhi, and Mother Teresa come to mind when contemplating those who selflessly dedicated their lives towards bettering humanity, and through their actions there is no doubt in my mind that that level of morality exists.

Personally I like to view these Stages of Morality as "potentials" for morality, decreasing in potential the farther displaced one's most natural morality is. Say, for example, one acts with a morality of Stage 4 for the majority of the time, considered his "base" or "natural" morality. He is less likely to react to a situation with a Stage 2 morality than a Stage 3 simply because he can better relate to the Stage 3 reasoning processes (much closer to his natural state of morality) than a Stage 2's. This is of course assuming he does not react to said situation with his base morality. Additionally, one might take the "high road" and reason on a slightly higher level of morality than normal for a certain situation, and once again revert back to his base morality (sometimes during the same situation).

Despite my reasoning (or written lack thereof) of Chaos' scenario, I would not agree that my moral stance is on a level of 6. Like you said, there's a big difference between saying what you would do and what you would actually do. This is not to say I'm not capable of viewing a situation and subsequently acting accordingly like a Stage 6, but the frequency of acting on said stage depends on whatever morality level you're on normally. There have been times in my life that I've reacted (albeit briefly) to a situation with a Stage 6 morality, and those always stand out from the rest.

Oh, and sorry for switching the topic off of racism. :-X

[Seifer]

I have a question that relates to the topic, but not the original question... O_o


I hate it when people are rude.
I hate it when people are both purposely rude, and unintentionally rude.
I hate rude people.
When someone is being disrespectful, and completely ignoring the fact that they're a neuscense, I hate that.
So, when a white person does it I hate it, and when a black person does it, I hate it, o-o

But does it make me a racist if I find that more black people tend to be rude?

The way racism is viewed in this day and age is so skewed. That's the issue.

As someone before me said, it comes down to stereotypes, and most are true.

A large portion of black people in USA are still very poor, because of their roots in slavery no doubt. Since they came from nothing they've never really gotten ahead. Because of their financial situation they usually grow up in bad neighborhoods "The hood". Since they grow up in these bad neighborhoods the pick up bad habits. So long story short, because of the way a lot of them are raised, they ultimately end up exactly like their stereotype.

This works for any race. We have stereotypes for a reason. They don't come from nothing and they aren't made it. This isn't to say that everyone of that particular race is that way, but for a vast majority it is true.

So is stereotyping racist? no.

[Lingus]

So is stereotyping racist? no.

It is a little bit if you act based on the assumption that anyone you deal with of a certain race matches up with the given stereotype. It's one thing to generally view stereotypes as being based on truth, it's another to use those stereotypes in your dealings with people of given ethnicities. You have to give everyone the benefit of the doubt regardless of previously conceived notions.

Despite my reasoning (or written lack thereof) of Chaos' scenario, I would not agree that my moral stance is on a level of 6. Like you said, there's a big difference between saying what you would do and what you would actually do. This is not to say I'm not capable of viewing a situation and subsequently acting accordingly like a Stage 6, but the frequency of acting on said stage depends on whatever morality level you're on normally. There have been times in my life that I've reacted (albeit briefly) to a situation with a Stage 6 morality, and those always stand out from the rest.

Yea, I feel the same way. I think that intellectually my morality is at a certain level, but my actions probably do not correspond to that same level. I may act according to a stage 6 morality on occasion, but things like fear of retribution and/or indifference towards others will often cause me to act at a lesser stage.

Specifically in the example given, I honestly see myself acting in a completely different manner than what I have stated. I would probably think initially that I would do anything to save my wife, but when confronted with the option of commiting a crime and potentially spending a significant amount of time in prison I would certainly have doubts.

[Jackabomb]

I'm not sure I like the concept of the "stages". Does this mean I'm a failure if I don't think in terms of stage 5 or 6? Or that my moral thinking patterns are sub optimal?